The Origin of the Amerindians

Repost from the old site.

As we noted in an earlier post , the view is converging that Amerindians can be traced back to the Altai Mountains in Southwest Siberia where China, Mongolia and Russia all come together.

Yet another study found that of all Asians, the Turkic-speaking tribes of the Sayan Mountains (west of the Altai Mountains and north of northwestern Mongolia) are the closest to the Amerindians. This group includes the Shor , the Tofalar, the Altai, the Khakass, the Soyots and the Tuva. The Mongolic-speaking Buryats are also included.

The Altai live in the Sayan Uplands. The Soyots and the Buryats are from the Eastern Sayan Mountains. The Shor and the Khakass are from the northwest slopes of the Sayans. The Tofalar are from the northern slopes of the Eastern Sayans. The Tuva are also from the Sayans.

This is an ensemble of Khakass singers called the Sume-r Ensemble. They sure look like Amerindians, don’t they. The Khakass, Turkic speakers of the Sayan Mountains, are related to Amerindians. The Khakass language is in good shape, with 60,000 speakers. The Khakass belong to the Central Asian Mongoloid group. They have wide faces and cheekbones are not very prominent. They are short, with dark skin, and are able to grow beards.This is a traditional shaman woman of the Altai-Kizhi group of the Altai. Of all of the groups listed above, the Altai are one of the closest of all to the Amerindians. As you can see, this woman looks very Amerindian, all the way down to the face paint. She’s even beating on a drum. I can’t believe that there is something like a tepee in the background.

Another powerful connection is that all of these groups practiced Shamanism very prominently. And we know what the aboriginal religions of the Amerindians were – forget all that “Great Creator” crap – most of that was lobbed on recently after they became Christians. The aboriginal religions of the Amerindians were animism and shamanism, combined.

Bama Kanda, a famous Buryat. I believe she is a singer. Although the Buryat look a lot more like typical Asians (note the resemblance to a Mongolian or a Korean here) several studies have now related them to the Amerindians. Strangely enough, the Buryats have an oral tradition that says that a group of them went to the Americas long ago.

From a book called The Last of the Shor Shamans . He looks quite Amerindian. It showcases a few remaining Shor elders who still practice Shamanism and looks into their worldview. The Shor language is doing ok, but it is on the decline all right. Quite a few kids are still speaking it.

The Shor are Uralics, but they have Mongoloid features. They are short, with broad, flat faces. They have light skin and light eyes and can grow a thick beard. The Shors have not done well, and alcoholism and VD are devastating them.

Galina Innokentievna Adamova, a member of the Fast Reindeer folksinging group. She looks like an Amerindian, and her costume even looks Amerindian. The Tofalar language is not doing well. It’s not being spoken by kids. About 30% of the Tofalar speak the language, almost all elderly.

It’s being taught for 1 hour a week in some elementary schools, and the teacher is not even fluent in Tofalar. She conducts the class in Russian. Other villages do not even have schools, and the kids are shipped away to boarding schools.

We have to conclude that once a language is no longer spoken in the home and is reduced to a subject in school, it’s probably on its way out.

The Tofalar are also members of the Mongoloid Central Asian race. They are short, with high, flat faces, without prominent cheekbones.

Nikolay Sergeevich Bakanaev, an expert in Tofalar fairy tales. I can’t believe how much this guy looks like an Amerindian.

The Ket and Selkup are also related to Amerindians, though they are now to the north of the Altai. However, a long time ago, the Ket and Selkup lived in the Altai, and they only moved north later on.

Katun River in the Altai Mountains, origin of the vast majority of the Amerindians. The ancestors of the Amerinds probably left this region to come to the Americas about 16-30,000 years ago.

Another paper has found that there were two waves to the Americas – the first wave, mentioned above, traced back to the Tuva of the Altai, occurred 20-30,000 years ago, not 16,000 years ago as suggested in the paper above. This group moved first to the Chukotka Peninsula, and then into the Americas. They constitute the Amerind speakers of North, Central and South America.

A Tuvan family, ancestors of the vast majority of Amerindians. Tuvans, who live in the Altai Mountains where Russia, China and Mongolia all come together, have one of highest rates of syphilis in the world, attributed to an old shamanistic tradition that encouraged promiscuity among females. The more sex partners a woman had before marriage, the more fertile she would be. It’s obviously not scientifically based.

A Selkup woman. Galina Vladimirovna Kusamina (nee Tamelkina), age 47. Photographed at the Farkovo settlement. The Selkups are not doing well. There is high unemployment, an extremely high rate of alcoholism, and they are victims of racial discrimination. The Selkup are members of the Uralic Race.

The origins of the Uralics are pretty obscure. Their language is Samoyedic. Samoyedic is very distantly related to Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian.Some say that this race is neither Mongoloid nor Caucasoid. Genetically, they do seem to fall in with the Asians. They are short and have short skulls. Asian traits are diminished, and their skin is fairer than in surrounding groups. These people, along with the Ket, are also ancestors of the Amerindians.

This paper also found evidence for a second wave of Siberians to the Americas. This wave came out of the Lower Amur River region near Sakhalin Island, where Russia, China and Korea all together. This wave gave rise to the Na-Dene speakers and the surrounding populations of Amerinds.

The Lower Amur River region, where the ancestors of the Na-Dene came from. The Amur is said to be one of the world’s 10 great rivers.

The Na-Dene migration occurred about 6-7,000 years ago. Some peoples who live in the Lower Amur region include the Negidal, the Ulchi , the Orok and the Udeghe. This paper found that the Negidal and the Ulchi were the progenitors of the Na-Dene.

Click to enlarge. The Lower Amur region of Russia can be seen to the left of Sakhalin Island. On this map, tribes residing in the Lower Amur region include the Negidal, the Ulchi, the Nivkhi, the Oroch, the Udeghe and the Nanai.D. I. Nadeina, a Negidal elder who has been working with linguists in Vladimirovka village, north of Japan near Sakhalin Island. The Negidal language was devastated by the post-Stalin USSR which sent the kids off to boarding schools.10-30% of the Negidal have a command of the language, but only 10% are speakers , all older adults. Younger adults can understand Negidal but not speak it.

Kids speak only Russian. There are only 500 of them left. The language is not written and there is no instruction in it. You can see that she looks Japanese, but anthropologically, thees people are called Paleo-Siberians, members of a group called Baikals. These people are the ancestors of the Na-Dene and surrounding tribes of Amerindians.

Ulchi children in native dress. They look pretty Japanese to me, but the picture does not have good resolution. The Ulchi are ancestors of the Na-Dene Amerindians.

Ulchi women being baptized into Christianity. At first glance I thought that they looked Japanese, but now I am going to say Korean. Anthropologically, they are just said to be Mongoloids of no pure type. Part of them belong to a type called Sakhalin-Amur. These types are short, with a broad, flat face and relatively dark skin. The men may have thick beards.

The Ulchi live, like the Negidal, in the Khabarovsk Krai District of Russia along the lower Amur River north of Japan and northeast of Manchuria, west of Sakhalin Island. The capital of the area is Bogorodskove, about 470 miles north of Japan.

30-40% of the Ulchi have command of the language. Older speakers know it well, the middle-aged less well, adolescents and young adults understand it passively. People under age 20 are not able to speak the language. There is a script and it is taught in schools. The language is used in the home. They are known to hunt seals.

Researching classic genetic markers reveals an interesting story. M130 goes out of Africa, to India and SE Asia (these are the Negritos), then up the coast to North America and the Na-Dene. Originally, M130 is obviously Australoid-Negrito but they go to NE Asian at some point (probably about 9,000 years ago).

Theirs must have been a coastal migration. The remains are in Northwest Canada, Oregon and the Northern California coast, but most of them are probably underwater. They must have gone inland at some point to become the Navajo/Apache. This is the same Lower Amur line that went to the Na-Dene in the paper above.

We know that the original lines in the Lower Amur region came from SE Asia. This mirrors the theories about the Ainu Jomon culture originating in Thailand 16,000 years ago. This correlation is based on a comparison of skulls from Thailand 16,000 years ago with the Jomonese who showed up in Japan shortly after and with the present day Ainu. All three seem to line up.

The tribes of the Lower Amur seem to have a similar provenance to the Ainu.

Ainu men with full beards. As you can see, they do look somewhat Caucasian. However, analysis of their skulls shows that they are Australoid. Their genes are Asian, showing relations to the Andaman Islanders (!) and Tibetans. The Andaman Islanders are the remains of the very first men out of Africa.If the Ainu are related to them, this shows that the Ainu are very ancient indeed.

The tribes of the lower Amur region probably derive from the Ainu. Genetics shows that this line came from SE Asia. A good theory is that the Jomon Culture, which showed up in Japan 16,000 years, is derived from a culture that existed in Thailand at the same time. The archaic Thai left Thailand and came up to Japan, possibly by boats. The skulls of the archaic Thai, the Jomonese and the Ainu all line up.

So the ancestors of the Ainu lived in Thailand 16,000 years ago and earlier and left to come up to Japan to become the Jomonese. It seems that the Ainu were on the move at this time. The Ainu also seem to be connected to the Murrayans, who arrived in Australia, possibly from either Thailand or Japan between 15-20,000 years ago. There is also evidence that they stopped by the Philippines on their way to Australia from wherever.

This is probably the same group as the proto-Australoids, the second group to come to the Philippines. So the Ainu are probably the ancient Thai from 16,000 years ago, the Jomonese from the same time, the Murrayans who arrived in Australia 15-20,000 years ago, the proto-Australoids who came to the Philippines around the same time and the proto-SE Siberians, who probably showed up there around 16,000 years ago.

The earliest Amerindians from 9,000-12,5000 years ago also look like Ainu. It seems that from 9,000-16,000 years ago in Asia, the proto-Ainu were really on the move.

Traditional, older anthropology has held that when the Ainu came to Japan, possibly 16,000 years ago, Japan was already inhabited. It is thought that Japan was inhabited by Negrito types prior to 16,000 years ago.

The Ainu replaced these Japanese Negritos, probably by killing them off. These people were called by the Ainu the pit-dwellers or koro-pok-guru (men with sunken places). These koro-pok-guru were said to be so small as to be considered dwarfs. The only logical interpretation is that these people were Negritos.

An Ainu man with full beard. The Ainu came to Japan from the Kuril Islands to the north, possibly 16,000 years ago. They were hunter-gatherers and liked to eat meat. They were deerskin leggings and salmon-skin boots. Their religion was animism. They were said to be very dirty people who seldom washed for some reason. A man who lived with them 100 years ago for six weeks said they never bathed in that time and never washed any utensils.

They worshiped the bear. Every year they had a Bear Festival and their highest compliment was to compare a man to a bear. The Ainu are pretty unique in this regard, as worship of bears is not common. On the other hand, the Ainu hunted bears, wore their skins and ate their meet. They were said to be a peaceful, kind people and did not practice capital punishment – although someone guilty of murder was mutilated, they were allowed to live.

Along the same lines, another paper found that Amerindians trace back to Mongolia, Manchuria and far southeastern Siberia (the Lower Amur River). The Altai and Buryat populations (just north of Mongolia) were included in the founders. This paper said that Amerindians came 22-29,000 years ago. There are very early sites in Beringia dating back 30,000 years, but they are controversial.

Beringia is now inhabited by Eskimos or Inuit. They are quite close genetically to Asians and they are not really Amerindians. They came quite late. Notice the resemblance to, say, Japanese.

This study found a single 30,000 year old gene in Amerindians. Based on this gene and an earlier study of classic genetic markers that suggested a time of entry at 32,000 years, this study postulated that Amerindians arrived in the Americas 30,000 years ago.

This study (broken link) found a single wave of entry 23-27,000 years ago populating the Americas.

It is now commonly agreed that the first Amerindians were Australoids. These are the Paleo-Indians. They are represented today in the Fuegians.

The Ona of Argentina are thought to be a remaining example of the Paleoindians whose skulls most resemble Australoids.

The skulls of the extinct tribe the Pericu also show similar affinities, as do very old skulls from the Americas about 12-13,000 years ago such as “Luiza” from Brazil and another from Mexico City. These skulls, and the Fuegians, line up with Melanesians, Negritos, Papuans and the Ainu.

Probably around 9,000 years ago there is yet another transition, this time to a more Polynesian type, though affinities with the Ainu remain. The famous Kennewick Man is illustrative of this type. White nationalists love to claim Kennewick man in order to prove that Whites beat Indians to the Americas and therefore this is our land and the Indians are trespassers (I kid you not!).

It is true that Kennewick does look somewhat Caucasian, but so do the Ainus. Kennewick man was not White or Caucasian. This paper definitively measures Kennewick Man’s skull and shows his nearest relations. One thing we should point out here is the Kennewick Man is a member of a race that no longer exists.

He had 64% affinity to Polynesians and 24% affinity to Ainu. There are also affinities to Southern Japan (Okinawans), the Moriori (a Maori Polynesian split-off from the Chatham Islands off the coast of New Zealand) and Easter Island (Polynesians). The Ainu are thought to have originated in the South Asia – South Pacific region.

Kennewick Man is also somewhat close to Papua New Guinea (Australoids), the Marquesas Islands (Polynesians) and the Society Islands (Polynesians). He has no affinities to Caucasians at all, unless you consider Ainus White, which they are not.

It is mysterious why the Ainus appear Caucasoid, but one theory is that when you mix an Australoid with a Mongoloid, you end up with a phenotype that can appear somewhat Caucasoid.

Kem Sokha, a Cambodian politician. If you look at him closely, you can see he looks almost Caucasian. This is probably due to a Mongoloid-Australoid mix, in my opinion.Another photo of Kem Sokha. Forgetting about his eyes for a moment, he looks even more Caucasian in this pic.

The more modern Amerindian types, who resemble Mongoloids and not Australoids, seem to appear about 6-7,000 years ago.

This paper indicates that there were possibly many survivors of the Paleo-Indians into more modern times, and that they did not all transition over around 6,000 years ago. They found “Archaic Colombian” skulls until 3,000 years ago that line up with Australoids.

A Yanonami child from the Amazon. This type typically has a very Mongoloid or Asian appearance. They could easily pass for, say, Filipinos.

This is an Inca. This type is distributed up and down the western part of South America from Chile through Peru to Ecuador and Colombia. A different phenotype.

An Apache warrior, Chief Victorio or Apache Wolf. Though these are Na-Dene speakers, this phenotype is common in the West. Prognathism may be present, along with sharply defined, angular features. Can be quite tall.

A Mexican Indian. Short and often has fairly dark skin. This is the phenotype from which many of the Hispanics in the US of Mexican origin are derived.

Floyd Red Crow Westerman, a well-known Sioux Indian from the Plains. This is a typical Plains Indian phenotype. Strangely enough, they can have a Caucasian appearance. Skin can be quite light also. Can be quite large and well-built.

References

Lell, JT, Sukernik, RI, Starikovskaya, YB, Su, B, Jin, L, et al. 2002. The Dual Origin and Siberian Affinities of Native American Y Chromosomes. American Journal of Human Genetics, 70(1), 192-206.

Neel, J.V., Biggar, R.J., Sukernik, R.I. 1994. Virologic and Genetic Studies Relate Amerind Origins to the Indigenous People of the Mongolia/Manchuria/Southeastern Siberia Region. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA (PNAC), Genetics, Vol 91: pp. 10737-10741.

Underhill, Peter A., Jin, Li, Zemans, Rachel, Oefner, Peter J. and Cavalli-Sforza, L. Luca. 1996. A Pre-Columbian Y Chromosome-Specific Transition and Its Implications for Human Evolutionary History. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA (PNAC), Genetics, Vol 93, pp. 196-200.

Powell, Joseph F. and Rose, Jerome C. 2004. Chapter 2, Report on the Osteological Assessment of the “Kennewick Man” Skeleton (CENWW.97.Kennewick), in McManamon, F.P. Kennewick Man. Washington, DC: US Department of the Interior, National Park Service, Archeology Program.

Neves, Walter A., Hubbe, Mark, Correal, Gonzalo. 2007. Human Skeletal Remains from Sabana De Bogotá, Colombia: A Case of Paleoamerican Morphology Late Survival in South America? American Journal of Physical Anthropology, Vol 133:4:1080-1098.

Zakharov, Ilia A. et al. 2004. Mitochondrial DNA Variation in the Aboriginal Populations of the Altai-Baikal Region: Implications for the Genetic History of North Asia and America. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 1011:21-35.

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41 Comments

Filed under Americas, Amerindians, Anthropology, Asia, Asian, Genetics, History, New Guinea, Paleontology, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Reposts From The Old Site, Siberia, Siberians, Sociology, The Americas

41 responses to “The Origin of the Amerindians

  1. Pingback: Are Amerindians Related to Polynesians? « Robert Lindsay

  2. Yekult

    yes i deal if Ainu is mixed of mongoloid and australoid. A must DNA test to prove that.
    And if that is true, may be the early australoid like a caucasoid, we must look for proofs in archaelogical form in Australia or SE Asia.

    about Floyd Red Crow Westerman ,he is like Chinesse

  3. Actually, a lot of Australoids do look somewhat like Caucasians. I am not sure why that is exactly.

    More precisely, I think that the combination of an Asian and an Australoid can produce a Caucasoid appearing type. I have seen these types also in Fiji and in Cambodia.

    Thx for the observation that the Sioux man looks Chinese. Very interesting.

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  6. Great article!

    I’ve always noticed the resemblance of most Amazonian Indians to the Filipino and other Asians.

    I’ve also noticed that other tribes, especially in North America have less of an Asian look to them and are physically bigger. Although I often see folks identifying as Indigenous who seem to have had Caucasian admixture so that’s something to consider when it comes to fairer, taller Indians.

    The Onas look quite Mongoloid to me. What are the features that make them resemble Australoids? Just curious.

    I always thought Australoids looked like this: http://www.patrickgeorgephoto.com/images/aussie-kids1.jpg

  7. Hi Olga. The Ona and tribes to the south resemble Australoids if we line the skulls up and look at them. It’s not necessarily apparent at first glance or even after a while. They still look just like other Indians to me, but the skulls don’t lie. These are also the only Indians I am aware of that are significantly prothagnous. This is a lie spread about Amerindians – that they are prothagnous.

    In truth, they are about 0% on the prothagnous scale. Prothagnism means a lower jaw that sticks forward. It is true that Blacks and Australoids are quite prothagnous. Possibly Amerindians appear prothagnous to Whites because Whites have extreme negative prothagnism (receding jaw) so just about everyone looks prothagnous to us. It is also true that Eskimos are moderately prothagnous.

    The Indians of N America are indeed physically larger. The Indians south of the border are smaller due to the hot and jungle like climate which makes people smaller and darker. Some N American Indians are also fairly light. All Indians are as Asian as any other on genes – they all go back to the Russia – China – Mongolia border region, or Lake Baikal area, or the Sakhalin region.

    Any Australoid genes have long since washed out. There was also an Australoid group in Baja California called the Pericu but they long ago went extinct. They were prothagnous also.

  8. We definitely disagree on illegal immigration though! I’m one leftwinger who wants to send them all home!

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  10. I address the issue of facial features among Native Americans

  11. It’s prognathism. And there are some tribes that do show prognathism. Especially in the tropical regions.

    • Well, I have a chart on prognathism among races and they are not showing any in their Indian samples. The Indians in the chart have zero prognathism. But the southern Baja Indians and the Fuegians may show prognathism, since their skulls look totally different and like the skulls of prognathous races.

    • YOu might have a chart on races, but it is not a very accurate chart. Try downloading Howell’s database. I address prognathism among other things in these series of videos.

  12. Robyn Rofkar

    Interesting theories!

    I just need to clarify one of your pics above. The “Shoshone” woman’s pic above is my great-great grandmother’s sister. They were daughters of John Enos who boasted of having the blood of 7 nations running through his veins. Those verified are French, Flathead and Iroquois (father was some combination of French and Iroquois and mother was Flathead). Their mother, Julia, was 1/2 Scotch/Irish, and 1/2 Blackfoot/Sioux, which may have been the Blackfoot band of Sioux, or Blackfeet AND Sioux.

    In the picture, she does have a darker complexion. Interestingly enough, 3 of the sisters were darker and 2 had a lighter complexion, since they were about 5/8 Native American.

    The whole family did move to the newly formed Wind River reservation for the Eastern Shoshone back in the day as John Enos was related to Chief Washakie (Shoshone/Flathead), and there’s several similar pics online listing them as Shoshone.

    • Jaime

      Depending on how old the picture is, it can be orthochromatic. In other words, it is blind to red light and red color. It means anything close to that color wavelength appears much darker than it really is. You must always take that into consideration when looking at old photographs.

      (ordinary film was orthochromatic)
      Just consider this orange:

  13. darker complexions in black and white pictures are deceptive because the pictures were orthochromatic till the 1900’s

  14. Interesting post Robert, however your statement of Shamanism being Native American is said to be very offensive to Native Americans. This idea that Shamanism is Native American came from stereotypes seen in movies.

    At best you can say certain Native American folklore is distantly related to Shamanic spirituality. This is how the Brits came up with “Hinduism” the native South Asian religions looked to similar to them as outsiders to differentiate.

    It’s like confusing Greek mythology with Zoroastrian mythology. They’re related in some ways, but they’re two separate practices.

    This Shamanic stereotype has said to seriously offended many Native tribes because they see it as ignorance of their culture and folklore.
    Check these links:

    http://www.angelfire.com/journal/cathbodua/Shamanism.html

    http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/not_shamans.html

  15. mikko

    hello, from finland
    run across these

    It shows that Finns have 86 percent European alleles. Note that the chart also shows almost 13 percent Amerindian alleles in the Finns and only .7 East Asian. This shows that their admixture was very old, from a time before the proto-Amerindians left to the Americas.

    also

    http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.viewcustom&friendId=156887678&blogId=499945441&swapped=true&__preferredculture=en-US&__ipculture=en-US

    so what do you think. BS or what?

  16. Complete and utter BS. DNA Tribes should have stated that the DNA was similar to Amerindian, not the same. We are talking about Proto Amerindian DNA in Siberia. Th Finish people just have common ancestry from Siberia just like Native Americans. Native Americans still just were Asians from Siberia who crossed through the Beringian coastline.

  17. Richard Welch

    Doubtless some of the ancestral Amerindians did originate in the areas mentioned. However, it is almost impossible that any Asians were able to reach the Americas before the Bolling Interstadial ca. 14,000 years ago. Since we have evidence that the American interior was occupied many millennia before that, the only feasible explanation lies in some version of the Solutrean hypothesis — which is also supported by the heavy Caucasoid element in the earliest Paleoindian fossils (See Roots of Cataclysm, Algora Publ. NY 2009).

  18. Jaime

    Completely inaccurate. The Bølling-Allerød interstadial, only blocked a land crossing, not a a coastal migration. A coastal migration that has been verified both through genetic evidence and the evidence of boat traveling in the pacific waters. They coast hoped through the small oasis regions free of ice.

  19. Richard Welch

    Completely presumptive. Prior to the Bolling Interstadial, Stone Age people would have had to navigate around several hundred miles of glacial ice front to (maybe) find some little ice free enclave. There is not a scrap of evidence such a feat was ever achieved. Besides, the Asians Only theory can not account for the striking similarity between the Solutrean and Clovis technologies.

  20. Jaime

    Try various ice free enclaves. They have done core samplings and have found plenty of pollen evidence that shows it was quite possible, as well as found human remains on the islands. Only way to get there is by boat. And the distance is much less than traveling across the Atlantic with currents against them in a dangerous iceberg ridden ocean during the LGM.

    The part I am always amused with Solutrean sympathizers is the fact that they always ignore that we see pre-clovis points that do not have the qualities of the Solutrean points. This would mean that they forgot how to make the points in Europe, let hundreds of years go by, travelled to the Americas, still have no idea how to do Solutrean points, and then miraculously, pull and re-evolve solutran like points in the Americas from their genes.

  21. Richard Welch

    The human remains cited in paragraph 1 are dated after the Bolling Interstadial, and so are irrelevant. Have never seen any pollen evidence of pre-Bolling age from the coastal zone either. No comment on paragraph 2 due to its murky phaseology.

  22. The Truth

    Regarding Selkups and Kets – according to the study “Beringian Standstill and Spread of Native American Founders” and other sources, the derivative of MtDNA haplogroup A2a, which is found among the Selkups, is originally from a people related to the Kets, who merged with the Samoyedic peoples who arrived in the area, and it is possible that it came from the Americas through back migration.
    In other words, the Yeniseian peoples may have partial origin from the Americas, and thus they’re of Native American origin on their mothers side.
    This also means that the linguistic similarity between Kets and Na-Dene really doesn’t prove much, since the language may or may not originate in the Americas.

    The same is the case with the genetic similarity between Chukchi & some Naive Americans – coastal Chukchi are pretty much assimilated Yupik people who have adopted Chukchi language and customs (and through intermarriage). The “original” Chukchi are the Koryaks, who have no Yupik influence (they live on Kamchatka) and they’re not as similar to the people of the Americas as the coastal Chukchi are, for obvious reasons. There are also Yupik people who live on the coast of Chukotka who are still Yupik.

    In other words, though the people of the Americas surely came from the far east, the genetic similarity results should be approached with some caution, since there was back migration, as well as multiple documented migrations. Thus they don’t give the immediate answer one may think.

    . Nobody who lived there had any inkling about the existence of the modern concept of continents, so the Native American idea that they “always were here” just doesn’t mean much, because where is “here”? Those people did not know anything about America or Asia. After all, there’s only 80 km between the two lands, and there are two islands right in the middle

    And furthermore, evidence suggests that the ancestors of arctic peoples (Yupik, Inuit etc) actually were in the Americas really far back, so far that they may have come (to Alaska) before the Na-Dene speakers! They just had permanent travels forth and back over the Bering Strait, and they didn’t depend on any land bridge. We’re talking archaeological evidence which suggests they may have been there as far back as 10,000 years ago (perhaps that’s exaggerated, but they were there very early).

    Things aren’t as simple as they may seem.

  23. yall all bunch of dumb crackers i assuming ur all twacked out

    • LOL the post of a moron with no intellect is irrelevant. Go eat your wheat thins and keep on dreaming about crackers.

    • Wow, are you ever intelligent to have made such a statement. Now why exactly is it that a discussion about something other than why your pants are falling off your ass and down around your ankles makes the people involved in that discussion tweakers? Exactly. No reason. That’s what I thought. Put your crack pipe down, dude. Stop smoking that $h!T.

  24. soy boliviano y me es irresistible observar la gran bariedad de amerindios en este pais ya que en el oriente de bolivia hay amerindios con características faciales propias de la raza negra, es decir con narises anchas y un menton algo saliente, tambien se ve estas características en algunos indigenas del sur de potosi, mientras que los demas amerindios de razas atacameñas no tienen rasgos definidos, pero en general, hay mucho prognatismo con bocas y dientes grandes con mentones retraidos, pero lo que más me llama la atencion son los indios de Tarabuco que se disen que son quechuas puros, estos tienen rasgos facieles diferentes, como narises muy dinaricas o sea como tucan, a demás son ortognatos y con quijadas o mentones como de raza blanca en mucho de ellos, esto me lleva a pensar que cada etnia tubo un origen y desarrollo diferente y que los quechuas acabaron mesclandose con tribus atacameñas mas promitivos, en general hay indigenas de todo tipo, yo no diria que la raza amerindia es una sola, tambien hay de tipo australoide,

    • The Truth

      Jhovani (If you can read this)
      I do think you have a point. I believe there’s a standing misunderstanding that some people have. They think that because Native Americans may have migrated from Asia, that must mean that they’re the descendants of Chinese or Mongolians or whichever people who live there now. However, the people who migrated originally has nothing to do with the people who live there today. From a physical point of view, the South American peoples of the rainforest looks much more like South East Asian tribal people than they look like the people of China or even Siberia. They also live in a (vaguely) similar way surely because of the similar ecological environment – rain forest.

      Clearly, not all Indigenous American people look the same, in fact there’s a lot of differentiation in head shapes, and things like prognatism and many other things. Some South East Asian people also have noticeable prognatism, and even some Siberians have prognatism – they don’t all look like Chinese people at all.

      The development of the chewing apparatus, which affect the prominence of cheekbones and teeth size, seems to correlate with the way people live. Hunter gatherer life seems to require a strong chewing apparatus, and people who live this way, depending on their food sources, tend to have prominent cheek bones and a powerful chewing apparatus. Big teeth and strong jaws may also be somewhat related to some forms of prognatism, especially alveolar prognathism. So, how people look can be affected directly by the way they live, regardless of their origin.

      You can look at a number of Mayans, for example, and see that they have relatively moderate cheekbones in general, and that’s probably related to their sedentary way of life, even though it’s only a few thousand years ago they started this way of life.

  25. Caro Mundt

    The Moriori mentioned in this article lived off the coast of New Zealand–not New Guinea.

  26. Pingback: Evolution of Mexicans | Hispanic Rage

  27. Hank T.

    I have a question. Is prognathism can be of the mouth area/jaws only? Because most, if not all, of the tropical Amerindian and, thus, Mestizos have projected skull bones of the mid-face (entire eye area and zygomatic bones) That whole area is projecting. Below is a link to the Amerindians of Southern Mexico/Guatemala/El Salvador. Notice how most have projecting Zygomatic Bones and the eye area/temples are projecting forward as in many pure africans say of Sudan etc…So, my question is: Is a projecting mid-face (eye area/zygomatic bones/temples) indicative of Australoid or Mongoloid or African skull? Thanks. PS I looked up Australoid people and they in fact do look like very dark Caucasoid but with fatter nose plates (in terms of skull). So Im wondering if this projection in the mid-face is African or Mongol? I tend to see it in both. Or perhaps it may be a mixing of Australoid + Mongloid skull. However, you, in fact, mention in this article that this particular mix sometimes appears Caucasoid? Well, anyway… here’s the link to tropical native indians classified by Anthropologists as the Margid subrace of the greater Indianid Race:

    http://www.anthrocivitas.net/forum/showthread.php?t=253

    And since most dont show the type of projection Im refering to here are ones that show the projection I am referring to from that page:

  28. Do genes disappear Robert?

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