The Narcissistic Sociopath – A Type

I can’t go into too much detail about this, but I am dealing with one of these characters right now. All I can say if you run across these people in your life is run, don’t walk, right away from them as fast as you can.

I can’t go into much details about this either, but there has been a narcissist close to me for most of my life. This person is simply out and out harmful to me. They’ve done tremendous harm to me in the past, and if I continue to deal with them, they will continue to try to inflict, or will inflict, harm on me.

I think they can’t help it, but I’m also wondering if they are incurable. Most people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder cannot be helped. Why? They do not wish to be cured, see nothing wrong with themselves, and never will.

A few can be cured, but it’s not easy. You can’t change a tiger into a lion. You can’t change your basic personality. This is a law of psychology. For all personalities, there exists a pathological side and a healthy side. For NPD, the healthy side is called Confident Personality. For APD, the healthy side is called Aggressive Personality. Neither are optimal, but truly healthy personalities are either exceedingly rare or possibly nonexistent.

There are varying degrees of narcissism. First is the narcissism that any healthy person has. Then we start getting into varying degrees of narcissism. At some point, you have to say someone has narcissistic traits, or is a narcissist. That doesn’t mean NPD.

As one starts getting more pathological, we start moving into NPD, Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This is an extremely serious condition in which the individual ends up causing harm to most of the significant people in their life. As I said above, get all the harmful narcissists out of your life.

Going even further, we get into malignant narcissism. This is getting worse and worse. We may be looking at the narcissist-sociopath. Ted Bundy was one, so was Jeffrey MacDonald, and so, in my opinion, is OJ Simpson. They differ from pure sociopaths in that they need and crave attention and go nuts when you criticize them.

Pure sociopaths pretty much don’t give a damn whether anyone likes them or not. I don’t think they need attention or admiration either – I imagine they could care less about that too. Criticism doesn’t bother them much either. Most sociopaths seem to smile, laugh or glibly explain away any criticism directed at them. That, or they ignore it altogether.

The sociopath is not hurt by your criticism because there’s nothing there to hurt. It’s like yelling at a grizzly bear in a cage. The bear just looks up at you like, “Screw you, human,” and goes back to whatever he was doing.

If the sociopath feels that the criticism may harm him or thwart his plans, he may become alarmed, because these are machines dedicated to carrying out their plans. Thwarted plans don’t get carried out. Not good. So criticism simply spins the sociopath into a dizzying performance of lying, more lying, lies upon lies layered upon more lies, show-business style performance, the Mother of All Personal Charm Shows, on and on.

The “show” is so mesmerizing, baffling, confusing and charming that you can barely understand what’s happening, but a lot of times, you end up going along with the sociopath. Afterward, maybe you wonder why. The sociopath gets up and walks out of the room and out of your life.

Later, picking up the pieces, you are sitting there, dazed, shaking your head. “What the Hell was that?” you are thinking. It’s like you just got hit by a Human Tornado that whirled into your life, trashed a lot of stuff and then twisted off speedily into the sunset. You look outside, and it’s gone. You’ve been the victim of an emotional mugging, and you still can’t make sense of it.

There’s plenty on the Net about both sociopathy and narcissism and I have only barely scratched the surface here. Suffice to say that I feel that the sociopath is at the far end of the narcissistic scale. The sociopath is an ultra-narcissist.

He’s so superior and above it all that he doesn’t even care anymore. He thinks you’re an idiot, and he doesn’t care if you disagree. He will use you, abuse you, maybe even steal from you, assault you or kill you, but then he will sit down and eat a bowl of cereal like nothing else happened. That’s the ultimate in narcissism. You don’t exist as another human being to him. You’re a pure object, a tool, a means to an end. You may as well be a steering wheel or a hammer – that’s how much humanity you have to him.

Here is an interesting post on the difference between a narcissist and a sociopath. I don’t necessarily agree,  but it’s interesting reading.

The truth is that this is all just spectrum, probably emanating from extroversion at one end and moving through narcissism all the way to psychopathy.

This entire spectrum is utterly the opposite of the introvert – fearful – neurotic type, but your average moron can’t figure that out. As a society, we think that shy introverts are “psycho”,  probably because we worship extroversion and despise introversion. Truth is the true, pure, classic introvert is the least harmful or dangerous person, the least likely to hurt an innocent person, on Earth.

True, they are not all wimps, and some will fight back against the abuse they are typically subjected to. But that’s not the same as the abusive aggression of the narcissist and sociopath that targets the innocent.

Why the introvert is generally so harmless is a fascinating subject, but I  will leave it for another post.

I would also point out that most sociopaths are never arrested. These are the “controlled sociopaths” swarming all over the worlds of business, law, politics, law enforcement and the military. All of these professions provide outlets for controlled sociopaths to channel their antisocial and extremely aggressive behavior into. The shyster attorney, crooked businessman, con artist, ruthless executive, lying and wheeling/dealing politician come to mind.

There are many non-sociopaths in LE and the military, but it’s heaven for controlled sociopaths too. There is some evidence that they don’t do well in the military though. They love to blow stuff up and kill people, but they are so fearless and reckless that they often end up dead in wartime. Studies in World War 2 showed that though this type were excellent pilots, they were much more likely to be shot down. They were so fearless that they didn’t even bother to try to save their own skins.

I’m not trying to say that all cops are sociopaths, but anyone who’s had unpleasant dealings with cops (like yours truly) knows they are out there. Personality studies have shown the cops and criminals have remarkably similar personalities. It’s just that cops are channeling their antisocial BS in a healthy direction – busting bad guys.

For more on narcissism, check out Sam Vankin’s fantastic work on the web. Vankin is a fascinating character – he is a narcissist himself!

Google “How to Divorce a Narcissist.”

Joanna Ashmum’s site, How To Recognize a Narcissist, is fantastic, as is her classic essay, And Now We Are Six. Yes. The narcissist is going to be 6 years old for the rest of his life. Ever met a 6 yr old? Think about it.

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232 Comments

Filed under Psychology

232 responses to “The Narcissistic Sociopath – A Type

  1. Robert,

    I work on legislation in New York State in the address of workplace bullying and have seen the patterns between sociopathic and narcissistic bullies and this form of violence for some time. There are a couple of things that you may be interested in. First, narcissistic individuals who would be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and sociopath individuals cannot be cured of their issue. I say “issue” as they see nothing wrong with their behavior and how it affects them and those they come into contact with. Second, not all people who fall under the category of antisocial personality disorder are incureable. People who have Borderline Personality Disorder can change to become healthy and functional adults. The same thing goes for people who have Bipolar mental health issues. If the person seeks counseling or medication through an appropriate health care professional, they can recover from this issue.

    • Hotdog

      I live in Baltimore MD, and besides BMORE being the 2nd most violent city
      in the USA, it also has scores of sociopaths.

      If you think that you’ve seen sociopaths operate in your part of the US. you ain’t seen nothing yet.

      Sociopaths in Maryland, will kidnap you if you attempt to become friends with them. Yes like the pychology theories on hardened sociopaths they seek out empathetic people whom are unsuspecting. They crave revenge.

      But also as ME Thomas mentioned, they have much in common with criminals and pychopaths. They will stalk you. They will attempt to destroy your life.

      Many sociopaths are powerful people, ie Presidents of Universities. Heres the scariest part. They have seen you before, and are planning to do you harm.

      Most of them are full of seething hatred for the very people that they serve.

      Example I was kidnapped by a University Vice President. She used scary force for a small complaint. The kind of complaint you might make in a small department store if the floor was wet.

      Like “Hey the floors wet, I almost slippped.”

      Please read this if you think that sociopaths are cureable. They are not.
      Sociopaths seek out jobs that give them ultimate power over other people.
      Example a socipathic police officer.

      They can shoot you, arrest you, beat you up. I think you get it. The average person has no such power. They seek out power and they know what its worth.

      Sociopaths crave revenge when they don’t have power. Ex. Mark David Chapman John Lennon’s Killer. He felt he was a nobody so he wanted revenge.

      A myth. Sociopaths are popular. False. Generally popular people like quiet people, like fun people, they like hippies. They like everyone.

      Sociopaths like no one.

      The major attraction that a sociopath has is that a popular person is their prime target. Popular people make them want to destroy.

      IE David Bowie to Mark David Chapman.

      Finally Sociopaths will attempt to destroy your family. Beware of the following five dynamics that are the only real life diagrams of sociopaths.

      1- They crave power and jobs that have power-Not a trash man. A University President

      2-They will plan revenge when they don’t have power. Ex. Mark David Chapman

      3-They will attack again and again and again until the victem commits suicide.

      4- They are logical people. If you want to figure out if a person is a socipath, they can rattle off facts without tiring. Logical people are more likely to be sociopaths. A cat lover will not be a sociopath. Or a fan of baseball. To normal for a sociopath.

      5- They don’t like they following. Good or decent males. Good role models. They crave excitement including dangerous things like
      Bungy jumping, driving motorcyles at 150 mph, shooting guns night and day, violent sports.

      6 I added one more. Opps. There are just as many female sociopaths than males. The number of female sociopaths in the US is staggering.
      About 3 Million. Your chances of runnning into females sociopath is very real. Beware. Finally the prettier the more socipathic. They are very calculating and yes manipulative. They don’t have to work hard.

  2. Great post! You sure hit most points on that type here!

  3. Charlene

    Now that the dust and mental nightmare have settled a bit after ending a 6 year relationship, it all makes perfect sense. We became engaged 4 years into the relationship and his 25 year old daughter went way out of her way to make sure the marriage never happened. Her first complaint was that she wasn’t told about it first and her daddy (a 50 year old man) didn’t get her permission first. Her complaints escalated, she invented lie after lie, threw temper tantrums, verbally attacked my children (about her age), & eventually refused to speak to her dad until he agreed to end the relationship. He has always been his original source of narcisstic supply and has been victim to her control and manipulation. He couldn’t bear being responsible for “her” pain and anguish that according to her – he caused.

    Looking back now, she is a textbook narcissist. I’m not sure if it’s sociopathic, a personality disorder, or malignant. What I do know is, she plays a very sophisticated game of Simon Says. She is always Simon, she decides who gets to play, and unless you enjoy pain, you WILL do what Simon Says. Her wrath, retribution & stabs in the back are as irrational as they are painful.

    You’re initial statement on this page is correct. Do not walk away from such a person – RUN as fast as you can!

    • ED

      It sounds like she is sociopathic, I’d say. I have a border line narcissistic friend, and while it can be really annoying, bc it’s her way, always, she does not try to manipulate or hurt. She hurts people but not on purpose. She just thinks she is better. Also, can u be a sociopath and NOT be a narcissist? I feel like u can’t. U can be a non-sociopathic narcissist, but not a non-narcissistic sociopath… Any thoughts in that? Also, “The Sociopath Next Door” is a great book – 4-5% of our population has no conscious (meaning they are a sociopath)! I had a run-in with one. ..He’s pure evil. I feel for his sweet children.

      • Hi ED, thanx for stopping by. I answered your questions in a new post.

        • Birdie Johnson

          I met one who is “selling” himself as a hypnotist and “spiritual teacher.” Told me, “once I admitted I was a liar, I was no longer a liar.” After several sessions with him at $150.00 for 2 hours, he became extremly verbally and emotionally abusive. Look out for anyone on the internet selling themselves as teachers of God, spiritual teachers, hypnotherapists or life coaches.

  4. Kim

    I just broke up with a guy like this… Wow~one minute he was Dr. Jekkyl~the next Mr. Hyde~he drove me crazy with his paranoia~always thinking that people were against him, and that you are doing something behind his back~Now, I hear he’s driving everyone else batty, his boss included. He was as abusive as they come and went to jail several times because of it. In the beginning, he seemed very nice, but over time, he put you up on a pedestal, which you don’t want to be on by a sociopath, belive me. One minute they are nice as pie, the next they want to throw a pie in your face~and crush it into your face until you can’t breathe any longer. I hope sincerely that they find what they are looking for, off a cliff, if you know what I mean.

    • Good job, Kim. Learn to recognize this type and avoid them like the plague. They are everywhere in our capitalist society, which rewards them for their extreme aggression and extroversion. Learn to recognize them and avoid contact with all future persons of this type.

      • Lucky

        @Robert Lindsay:
        I find your analogy a bit strange and would like to know what does a “capitalist society” have to do with a The Narcissistic Sociopath – A Type??? From what I have read some of the most Narcissistic Sociopaths are those that have lived or are living in a Socialist, Marxist and/or Liberal society. Could you please clarify?

        • ED

          Those leaders could probably be seen as Sociopaths… They have burning desires to control. A Capitalist society, one in which individualism is covetted and celebrated, nurtures Sociopathic behavior in the members of that society. Laissez Faire attitudes in which, if u get bamboozled, that’s ur fault, is just more tolerant of people without a conscious.

    • Hmmmm…there is a keyword here that I believe might disqualify the guy in question from the Sociopath Derby. “Paranoia.”

      Sociopaths are not paranoid. Paranoia presupposes fear or dread, neither of which sociopaths are allegedly capable of.

      Kim’s fuckbuddy sounds like a garden-variety Schizoid, Borderline Personality or PS more than anything. Sociopaths are not the only people who end up with rap sheets…

  5. frankie

    I cannot believe that there are other out there who have been through and are experiencing the same as me. It isnt until after they have gone do you see their behaviour and their lies. I saw it over the relationship but i loved this guy and chose to focus on the good times but I was still in confusion. No they dont love you….they cant!! Thats hard to accept. And they wont change, it will go with them where ever. The only way I cope is by telling myself that this is a mental illness. It is sick, just plain sick. Its not the norm!! Yes RUN as fast as you can. Like in the nightmare we all have. Dont trip up, just RUN.

  6. keith

    I met a charismatic and fearless female journalist and fell in love and we had a daughter, for which read: a sociopath lay in wait until a naive and mild-mannered introvert happened across her path. A clever pity pitch, then Seduction– quickly followed by bullying, manipulation, public smears, etc etc, and even (among other things) vociferous demands to be beaten. Its a funny old world out there. I would naturally advise you to stay away from such ‘people’, but they are not human and anyway you don’t have a chance against them.

  7. Jay B.

    Here is a good one for study purposes.
    My wife’s ex is something to behold. He has a show on cable access in Portland, OR. He was very abusive to her and the kids physically as well as emotionally. In fact the abuse continues via this show to this day.
    He used to call her every name in the book on their way home from church on Sunday. Wrapped his hands around her throat and beat her head against the wall then drug her to the floor and while straddling her beat her head between the hard wood floor and his forehead. Slapped my daughter so hard as a toddler she had a hand print on her face for 3 days. Kicked my son in the back and left a footprint on his back. He was only 3 or 4. I try not to dig up to much information for obvious reasons. He used to put my wife’s car up on blocks and tell her, ” when she could appreciate it she might get it back”. Way to much to list. This doesn’t even scratch the surface.
    When he left her finally he took all the furniture including the fridge.
    He was ordered by the court system about 9 years ago to take some classes before he could get visitation back. As predicted, he took 7 years to get it done.
    I was curious and one day I “Googled” his name. You just have to love the internet. There it was, holy shit! Dads television network, hosted by Robert Pyland.

    My assumption is that if he does a cable access show and they have put several of the shows on the web, there is no violation posting it here. If you need an education on this personality type, you have to check this guy out. He hates his ex one minute and loves her the next. Its her fault in one half of the show and the courts fault the next. NEVER his fault. He can do no wrong…ever. He is educated, “book smart”, with no common sense. And a deacon at his church. In fact some of the people from his church go to court with him as moral support. He has manipulated them psychologically as hijacked them emotionally onto his roller-coaster ride.
    By the way, we do have a “plan B” for the day this guy goes off of the deep end. There a lot of groups and people watching him.
    My heart goes out to people living with the fear my wife lives with and that some of you live with.
    People like this should be put on an island with others like them. Odds are, the problem would take care of itself. He likes to brag about his “yacht and red corvette”, maybe he could sail to the island.

    • FrankS

      JayB. I am Roberts best friend. I was also the Producer of the DADS show for over 2 years. Neither of us were there when the abuse took place and I don’t think it is our place to say what did or did not happen. In a honesty, I do not know. It has been my wish that Bob would just let Brenda go and move on. I ended my association with the program for many reasons, his attitude being one. I love him like a brother and Brenda did hurt him too. But he needs to move on. I know he has said very hurtful things to Brenda and her Mom and I am sorry for that. I guess this is the collateral damage that this personality type brings about. He is not evil, just lost. He wants something he has resigned himself that he will never have, a normal relationship with his children. Because of that realization, he has decided he has nothing to loose to keep firing shells Brenda’s way. Thus making it hard for him to have a normal relationship with a woman and see that life goes on. If I could do one thing to help him now, it would be to ask you guys to not watch the show and not call in. Just let him go.

      Take care,

      Frank

      • bev

        Wow! First, what is with Frank? Stalker? So, Frank, have I understood correctly, in order for the violent assaults to be deemed “real” one must have been there to enjoy the show? I’m sure the kids just beat the hell out of themselves to gain attention, and their mother painted the marks and bruises on their bodies.

        His Royal Highness The Baby IS NOT YOUR FRIEND, not in the classic way humans enjoy friendships. You are his chump, you give him attention and sympathy and validate his pathetic excuses. He has turned you into an enabler, acting on his behalf to defend the indefensible.

        Portland has a bumper crop of NPD’s. My ex is a high profile CEO of a company in Oregon. Location of this publicly traded company and too many details would be a give away, one day all will come out but for now, enough.

        I have known him for 25 years and only in the 9 months we were together did I see his mental illness. There are extenuating circumstances which prevented me from assigning his behavior to BPD/NPD. Twenty five years I was in his life and no fucking clue, talk about blindsided! Oh, and let’s not forget the dissociation. Who are we now?

        His profession affords him the luxury of being an “eccentric” force to be reckoned with, aka major asshole, and having it overlooked or admired. People in this city are clueless, genuflecting at his money and power and all the while he is hideously abusive to those who are close to him, everyone else is irrelevant. He does get off on the groveling and the fact that they understand he is superior.

        To be in his life one must be on his payroll, except for me, he had no way of controlling me and this made him suspicious, I did not want to “obligate” myself to him. He was fearful that I would leave. He is much older than I, for me this was a non-issue but he went off the rails. I was with him because I found him attractive and we had fun and a long friendship (ha!).

        At first very romantic, charming, caring, sweet, almost submissive, he said he had always been on his best behavior for me. Was not sure what the hell that meant but as I was aware he could go off (never on me) I figured that’s what he meant.

        In a bid for control he would subtly suggest to me that I was somehow lacking in every way. Bear in mind that four years ago he spent over 130k ( nothing to him) on a little business venture he conjured up to manipulate our relationship into being. I am a reasonably secure, intelligent, old school, good person so I knew his veiled digs were “off” by a mile. I am generally considered beautiful, people I don’t know tell me this frequently. I don’t say this to boast but to make a point. Honestly when it comes up I kind of ignore it, I’ve heard it, it’s nice but it’s not an achievement.

        Despite the fact that Mr. CEO has been fixated on me since I was the babysitter he decides that I am not good enough. He makes a brutal, soul crushing exit after months of asking me to hang in there with him.

        All this after an erectile problem and sexual issues, oddly chaste one day, porn star the next! Rampant shame and guilt, no fun. After a while I was unsure of how to interact in or out of bed.

        So he had to move on, endless lies, projection, deflection and excuses, all my fault of course. How could it be otherwise?

        He is by definition (just a few descriptors) vapid, shallow, pretentious and insecure. His new, better woman is old and dowdy. No wonder he is now seething with unprovoked anger for me. Any man would be hateful if he gave up a woman like me for a “suitable” almost handsome woman. Apparently she has the right answers to the questions one hears when engaged in superficial Portland social scene blather. He won’t have to fear anyone whisking her off, she’s all his to abuse and toy with.

        What really pisses me off is what I found out after our relationship. After all the guilt trips regarding sex, other emotional distancing techniques and making it seem like we were the sinners of all time for being adults in a relationship I find out….
        QUITE BY ACCIDENT, suppose if one lives long enough one’s dirty deeds will catch up to you. HE HAS NO IDEA THAT ANYONE KNOWS.. HE WILL SHIT. THAT LOW LIFE, DUPLICITOUS, PIOUS, LYING, ABOUT TO BE EXPOSED MOTHER FUCKER HAS BEEN FUCKING HIS EXTREMELY UGLY, MARRIED, DID I SAY UGLY, AS IN UNFUCKABLE DENTAL HYGIENIST FOR OVER A DECADE. HIS WIFE WAS HER CLIENT AS WELL! CLASSY. HE HAS A HARD ON FOR UGLY, GEEZER POON! It seems mister chaste has a bit of a fucking problem. Pardon my filthy diatribe but I feel furious, nearly a white out kind of rage. When I see her rodent like features I can only wonder in disbelief. Does he think he’s doing the Lords work? There is so much more to the story but again, in time.

        Never knew what a PD was and now, the man who was more significant in my life than any other for 2 1/2 decades turns out to be totally lacking in self and sanity! I will need to rebuild my entire emotional life from the ground up.

        Sorry to go on so long, wish I could share the craziest bits.

        • CJT

          Wow Leigh you do sound so angry, I’m sure you’re justified, I appreciate the irony of your experience – you being beautiful, the others being ugly, rodent like features, wtf? – but you should move on. Forgive the a$$hole. Turn around and don’t look back.

        • ED

          Honey, I’m 30, my NPD left me for a rather unattractive 40 year-old grandmother. He manipulated us into texting each other (she was texting thru his phone). Don’t be mad at her… Pity her! God knows what awful lies he told her about u (apparently I’m spoiled and just a whole bunch of crap). I never lost my cool with her. I told her, quite honestly, that I was glad he was out of my life, and that if she needed to talk to me after he left, I would be there for her. I think she thought I was being snide, but I did, and still do (9 months later) mean it. I am also an attractive individual, and he told me he wanted a trophy on his arm, to be envied. I think he probably showed her this one bad (I mean, horrible lol) pic of me. He just tries to turn everyone against everyone, and, unfortunately, he is smart. I could see this guy doing terrible things to people, and just hope he manages to get arrested BEFORE he kills someone, or permanently screws up his poor kids (whom he somehow managed to get custody of… Scary!!) So, from someone with experience… Try not to be so angry. They win even more. They can never experience the wonderful things in life like we can. Their only joy comes from manipulating people. How awful is that?!?! Just learn from them, and don’t put yourself in that situation again.

      • ED

        Oh, and no offense, Frank, but you are delusional… This charismatic dude is using your trusting and loving nature to manipulate you. STAY FAR AWAY! He won’t even bat an eyelash while he’s using a tooth pick to get the remainder of your flesh put of your teeth after he has chewed you up and swallowed whatever bits of you he could use. Not to be crass, but these people are soulless.

    • Bongstar420

      This is why religion exists…As a tool for the type you describe, not due to objective accuracy.

    • Randee

      I am living with a person that has so much of what you just stated. I divorced him after six yrs. Now, going on 41 yrs of on and off relationship with this man that I am in counseling to figure out how to get away from him. I have a place to go but the problem is money and my belongings. If I just spend that dollar to win the Lotto things would be different, but my chances of that, are as good as getting struck by lightening.

  8. Leigh

    I have been post divorce since 2003 from a man with NPD. It was always there but it flared up when he met his current wife. He has taken me back to court twice (we have a child) as well as “split” the relationships between me and doctors, school personnel and other people involved in our child’s life. It is almost unbearable at this point. We are still in open litigation (his choice) and attending parenting coordination. I don’t even know if the PC understands that he has NPD, I don’t think the judge does either. My cross motion was solid and yet no one seems to ever believe the facts and documentation I have put forth. I have felt like giving up on life a few times as this chronic disorder has hurt so many people, mostly me, my new husband and child’s life. I truly don’t know what to do anymore. Everyone says “Run!” however I did. And he is still on my heels with this hands out. When the justice system has been perverted by him, as well as the education and medical system, (I am an ICU nurse and that doesn’t even “cut it”) where do you go next? That’s the only question I am living on these days. Thanks for your very informative blog.

    • JIM

      It sounds trite, but you simply must wait and hope and pray- resolve and swear to yourself that the SOB is not going to ruin the lives of you, your husband and your child – society needs you, your husband and child need you, and BY GOD that SOB is not going to beat you into despair and depression NO WAY Wait, hope and pray for courage — his time is soon coming

  9. Paula

    What can you do if you are related to people with these sociopathic and nacisistic traits. I have a father and a brother who are very manipulative, lying, charismatic and just plain mean not to mention violent. In order to visit my mom I have to be around those 2 nuts. I’ve learned a lot tricks to avoid them, but sometimes they corner me, by phone, email or in person. And honestly the amount of rage they have, particularly for women, scares me. Confronting them head on seems to cause eruptions of violence, and they always have a way of blaming me for their destruction. I’ve warned them I will call 911 and they know I will, cause I have before. Any family event can turn into a hellish event. Do you have any suggestions.

    • I know what you mean, I have some family like this myself. The best thing is just to get away from them. Another thing is just to distance yourself from them. Do they know that you don’t like them? These types are very insecure and crazy and they will actually get upset if they find out that you don’t like them. I would let them know that you don’t like them. This will hurt their feelings and they will probably back off on you. Don’t get too close to them or they will just attack. Keep your distance.

      • Talia

        Robert–I came across this page by pure coincidence as I am studying this subject. I want to thank you for addressing these issues. I feel for everyone on here that has written. I know people in my life (friends) who are sociopaths, etc. etc. My exhusband is, combined with biplar disease. My main question for you, Robert, is how do you handle a situation where the person tries to (and succeeds) to make everything SOMEONE else’s fault? Tells lie upon lie and makes even friends out to be the “bad” person? Why do they do this? And whenever other friends (and myself) want to ‘right the wrong’ or set the record straight–it gives the person more ATTENTION which is what I believe they are looking for. I have done ZERO to set the record straight…but many times feel the unfairness of such lies about innocent friends come at a high price. It’s as if they are in control even when they are gone. And why are they so “charming and believable to NEW people? My ex is with his now third wife, as an example. And it’s been over 14 years and SHE hates ME? She has never met me, or talked to me…that is merely an example…my main concern is that I can understand people getting PTSD because though, they are long gone (I have not spoken to my ex in 14 years, except at his son’s funeral–so sad–his son was a doll!) Is there any justice to be the one that (presently) friends of people like this are thwarted in their endeavor to RUIN other’s reputations because they are, as someone above wrote so perfectly “soul-less”…Net, net…I guess it’s difficult for a normal loving person to ever understand why a “friend” would ever want to hurt them, with no regard for what that hurt and damage does to them and their future. I agree too, about RUN not walk away…It’s hard to realize that the damage they do, can go on forever–unless they find “finer prey”…and leave you alone. Thanks again for any insight. Lastly, I have a girlfriend who’s brother is a sociopath and she always says “he has hurt a lot of people, including us” and I know with the sound of her voice and the look in her eye that the pain is so deep, no one in the family likes to even discuss it. SAD–SO SAD! So, really she is saying–even if she never talks to her brother again…the damage is done. WOW!

    • Jackie

      If you have to be around your abusive father and your brother in order to see your mom, can you imagine what she is going through on a daily basis, that is, if she hasn’t lost all touch with reality as a result of living with two very charming and manipulative nutcases? Any chance that you can get your mother out?

      I was married to a very manipulative, intimidating, emotionally-abusive, legally-abusive, economically-abusive control-freak lawyer with NPD and other psychiatric problems, and my younger daughter and I probably couldn’t have gotten out on our own, let along with our sanity intact, without my oldest daughter’s help. She and her family had the opportunity to move out of state, which, within a year, opened the door for our own move out of state. It was like moving from the wrong side of the looking glass to the side with sanity, stability, logic, kindness, compassion, courtesy and respect. It took a long time to decompress after living with a tyrant for eleven years, but I have never once regretted the move. The geographic cure is the only way to deal with these people, and people who have had the crap beaten out of their sensibilities sometimes need a little extra hand-holding in order to escape.

    • Shelley

      My mother became jealous of me the day I was born because my father always wanted a little girl. She hated that he didn’t love my older brother as much as he loved me. So I’ve been manipulated by her my entire life. I’ve been in and out of therapy off and on my entire life, beginning at age six. Every single therapist/shrink has told me to walk away from my mother but since she has complete control over me I couldn’t. When I was little it was just that my brother could do no wrong and I could do no right. He deserved toys, dressy clothes and cars while I never received any. My mother manipulated my father into molesting me when I was 11. I kept it secret out of fear for around five years until one day she was going to leave me alone with him again. I finally broke down and told her, hoping she’d help me and she has blamed me for it every single day since. She told him that I seduced him. MY OWN FATHER!! She beat me up every chance she got for any reason she could make up but it was always because she was jealous. She even called me, after I married and had kids of my own, every week to make me relive every single thing he did to me, for over 25 years. After that I finally put my foot down and said enough! It made her so mad that I refused to discuss it anymore. I’ve spent a lifetime not knowing there was any disorder there. So my life has been one of being the best I could be just to prove to her that I was a good person. Now at 50 I stepped back for just a few months and that’s all it took. I saw her in a whole new light and now realize there was never going to be anything I could do to be seen as anything other than competition to her.

      I am just now beginning to understand just how manipulative she has always been. She can’t let me go. She may not be able to control me directly but she still keeps at my father, even though he divorced her and has remarried, my brother and even my youngest son. He is deaf and she owns an apartment complex so as of now she is controlling and manipulating him. Luckily he is deaf and she won’t bother learning his language so it’s not so intense for him. He is getting what he wants and or needs from her and she can’t do too much damage to him. She has been physically violent towards him before but he just packs up and moves away. She can’t let him go or she won’t have that to hold over me so she sweet talks him back. But the control she has over my father is the same if not worse than the control she’s always had over me. Once in a while she will get to him and he will chew me out because he has no idea he’s been manipulated for over 50 years. I’ve tried to get him to see but he’s not ready or willing so I just have to tell him I will not talk about her with him anymore. When that happens she starts in on my brother to get after me. It will never end. She will never be able to stop abusing me. I, needless to say, am one messed up puppy but I’ve never given up hope that someone else will see how sick she is. I’ve always been aware of her hatred towards me, even when I was two and three years old. I just thought if I was as good as I could be that one day she would see that I am a good person and not who she thought I was. I see now that it will never work and she will never stop and she will never ever admit it was always all her. I may have to give up my father and my brother if I ever want any peace. But, having been raised in the south….hahaha…we are taught from birth that it is our duty to honor our mothers and fathers till death.

      She has lived in such a way that every single person she has ever befriended believes she has been the victim of domestic violence by my father and that I have always hated her because I couldn’t hate him for what he did when I was a child. None of which is true but she is very convincing and since she goes to church, pretending to be a good soul, people around her don’t notice she is pure evil. They will stand there and fight on her side without ever knowing she is manipulating them the same way. I’ve often thought about writing a book about my life with her terrorizing me but if I wrote it all down no one would believe anyone could live through all that I have and she would sue, win, and have the whole world on her side. I just do what I can to keep from hearing anything from her and refuse to discuss her with my father, brother or son. I’d run, far and fast, but there’s no where on this planet she wouldn’t be able to find me.

      • Randee

        I had a mother that tried to get rid of my sister and me as she never wanted children.She thought that if “I did this I would have my father to herself” my sister and I were sent to different aunts and uncles, so she wouldn’t have to deal with us. I broke my hip and four months later I was seen by a doctor and put in a wheelchair and told I would never walk again ( I have had 4 (r) hip replacements in 40+ yrs.) I was helping my mom do the laundry and my arm got stuck in the ringer, went to the doc and then sent to my uncles, my sister also. Then I figure that if she really didn’t want me I would commit suicide and then she sent me to the state mental hospital. My dad came home from Korea to get me out. My sister tried to run away from our mom and ran into a glass back door that swung back she ended up with several stitches in her face, mom said if you get blood on my dress, you will get the spanking of your life. She did and the doc saw this but did nothing but put in the records. We have the records because my dad was in the Army and we carried our records with us when we moved. When my mom had rheumatic fever, we were living a mile away from her with an aunt, and I had to go and make sure she had her lunch during my lunch time and get her what she needed then run back to school, then after school, I had to make sure she had what she needed before dad came home from work then run back to my aunts to do my homework and have dinner with them. Of all the relatives we were sent to, my sister and I begged to live with our aunt (my mom’s sister) she said she tried but it didn’t work. My brother was just a meal ticket for my mom as he was from another marriage and she received support from the dad. My brother went and lived with our uncle as he didn’t want to get hurt anymore from my parents. I have PTSD from all of this and now in counseling to find out why and also because I am in a relationship with a narcissistic sociopath personality (ex-husband) learning how to get away from that.

  10. Pamela

    I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting this. I have been reading some things online about narcissistic sociopaths, but nothing has come close to this article you wrote. It’s like you channeled the emotional turmoil I felt when you wrote, “Later, picking up the pieces, you are sitting there, dazed, shaking your head. “What the Hell was that?” you are thinking. It’s like you just got hit by a Human Tornado that whirled into your life, trashed a lot of stuff, and then twisted off speedily into the sunset. You look outside and it’s gone. You’ve been the victim of an emotional mugging and you still can’t make sense of it.”

    Emotional mugging is a term that seems to fit perfectly with what I experienced.

    My ex left me 5 months ago via an email that he sent from his iPhone before his plane took off from my city (we were long distance). Minutes before that, we kissed goodbye and I had no idea anything was wrong. Throughout our entire relationship, he treated me very badly. He was emotionally abusive and always looking for other women (though in a sneaky way).

    I know I could have saved myself a lot of dignity and self respect if I had left him, but I loved him so much even when he was treating me so poorly. My heart is still so broken by this person. I have no closure. I have written him several times and get no response. He is a cold brick wall.

    I am left feeling like the fool, the idiot.. because I did everything wrong in the relationship. I still love him. Friends and family cannot begin to understand what it was like to be in a relationship with him or why I still love him. I don’t understand it either. I wish I could stop. I know he is bad for me.

    • Hi Pamela. Glad to be of help! Bottom line is you need to fall out of love with this guy. I recommend practicing hating him. Just create the thought in your mind that you hate him and just dwell on that over and over. After a while you will start to fall out of love with him.

      • Lucy

        Robert,

        I do appreciate your article and what you have written, although, I’m not understanding how it is that you can write “you need to fall out of love with him” as if it is as simple as picking a tick off of your leg. Being in an extended relationship with someone that is as manipulative, controlling, uncaring, abusive in so many ways i.e., mentally, physically, emotionally, sexually; someone that has changed your way of thinking, feeling, responding; someone that has controlled your movement just by reiterating to you over and over again that you are worthless, that no one will ever want you much less love you and that you will never be able to make it without him/her in your life, it’s going to take a little bit more than just hating them to be able to “find” your self again.

        Having been in a Narcissistic Sociopath relationship, not only did I not know who I was any longer, I experienced such trauma and anxiety that I developed PTSD, bi-polar manic depressive disorder and anxiety and have been in therapy for over 15 years! Trying to unravel the whys, the how did this happen, when did it happen, will probably take as many years in therapy, along with medication, to unravel the mess as it took for some to finally recognize the dysfunctional mess which they were living. How I wish it would have been that easy to just “hate” the narcissist that manipulated me and controlled my every move for so many years!!! Trying to undo the damage of a Narcissistic Sociopath is like peeling an onion – if you try to start in the middle you are going to have a big, big mess, yet, if you start with the skin and work through each layer until you get to the center, recovery, rediscovering who you are and restarting your life will be amazingly more successful. I also find that there is such a fine line between love and hate that sometimes you can’t tell the difference. When concentrating on hating someone, I believe you are still giving them the power to control your thoughts, which in turn means they still own you. Hate is only one of the stages of recovery — once you let go of the hate only then will you be able to move on with your life. I am not an expert in this field of mental illness, although, I was a victim and now I am a survivor!!!

        • ED

          You know what helped me? Knowing it wasn’t my fault- I mean, I’m annoyed with myself for getting manipulated and ignoring all these damn alerts going off in my head. But just know that the reason he doesn’t love isn’t because u are unloveable, but bc he can’t. You should pity him, but also know there is no help for him. Your only failure was ignoring the warning signs. You can’t make him better. He’s not a full, whole individual like we are and your life will be so much less stressful! Another great book is called “Attachment Theory”. It helped me deal with the crazy, uncharacteristic manic emotions he caused in me. IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT!! He’s a sad, sad man. It’s hard to be in love with someone you pity.

    • Frankie

      I feel so much for you as you are going through where I have been and are still dealing with the pain and confusion. Education is your best defense believe me. These people are text book cases. A lot of what you say is exactly my experience only I am a male and he was too. Its cruel, callous, confusing and yes you are left with no closure. I am still alive after one year of the hell that he put me through. I loved this guy unconditionally and thought that it was reciprocal. It wasnt, and that is where we have a huge problem. Forgiving ourselves for being so stupid. I stood up to him on few occasions but these people are clever and talk you down, making you feel guilt! Never again. I will confront until I have an answer. I remember the confrontation and he telling me to call the other person on the phone. Of course I wouldnt….I wish that I had of. Lies are a huge part of their existence, and someone who will believe them. They call us victims. They usually have a few then it catches up on them so they have to take off. I had a face reading done of this guy and what I got back was astounding. He was crafty, dangerous and capable of committing crime. I was living with him…or sharing a house with him. The face reader knew nothing about hs character at all.
      Where to from here? Forget about him? Yes but no! I believe people need to be warned. I have attempted to do that and am not scared of retaliation as they are gutless.
      You must forgive however then be as crafty and calculating as they are. They do not change. They cannot love. They have no conscience.

      • ED

        Frankie, I lIke the way you think!! I let this guy back into my life after 12 years and it was disasterous (I was only 18 the first time and way too forgiving)! Oh, another great read – “The Art of Seduction”… When you said we are called “victims” by the NSP, it made me think of that. It is basically a manual on how to ‘”be” a sociopath. It gives great insight as to how their minds work. Frankie is right- knowledge is power!!

      • Frankie you are right. Never stop educating yourself about sociopathy. Read and read and read some more. When you read or educate yourself about them and your situation you gain empowerment. You will bit by bit learn about their thinking and manipulating styles and so on. As a result you will be in a position of knowing what to expect from them. More importantly you will begin to see clearly how you were conned and manipulated and hence become better at setting up your own defenses. When you know who and what you are dealing you can better equip yourself. This is done through consistent education.
        A bit of advice. Sociopath are liars and they are good at twisting your words and a conversation. It does not matter what you are saying to them or what they are saying to you…….(Advice) be mentally present and aware. Strongly note what YOU are saying to them in that moment to avoid your words getting twisted. Pay particular attention to what He/She is saying to you also. You have got to have the mental energy each time when talking to a sociopath or such persons. When you are positive of something that you have said to the sociopath and they are trying to twist it ………. strongly hold on to your what you know you have said and DON”T have a drawn out argument about it either. If you do then that is what he/she wants and they will just chew you up and spit you out. When you are positive of something the sociopath said to you and is now denying it…….. stand your ground the same otherwise they can make you feel as if you are losing your mind. You will find that you begin to doubt your memory and mental health. Again be mentally present and aware in talking to them. Many are lousy at holding a straight conversation. You might be pointing out how he/she lied to you and they effortlessly switch the conversation to something totally distant. Watch for them using charm or playing on your emotional needs to divert you holding them accountable. Be firm and take hold of the conversation because his /her diverting is due to a short attention span like a 3 yrs old child . Or just boredom. Each time you notice he /she derailing during a conversation you job is to put the train back on track. As stated before, be mentally awake, stand your ground, moderate the conversation and try to be calm too.
        With my sociopath friend I call him out for what he is. If he is lying and I know that he is I tell it to his face. He might smile but at least he know I am aware of what is being done. He pathologically lied to me in the very face of his own evidence. He recorded sex with a female and had me listened it then told me that it was another buddy of his. We listened to the clip together and he openly denied it was him. I called him a liar and then stonewalled him for a few weeks. When the bastard could take the stonewalling no longer he came and told me that he has nothing against me. He did not apologized for lying . He did not have to lie because we are not in a relationship. I am friend who he shares stuff with so it was foolish of him to lie when he has shared far worse than that with me. I did not press him to apologized because he would not. Anyway, I had a talk with him and told him that pathological lying is a trait of his mental disorder. I told him he is a liar and I don’t trust him. I noticed it had an effect on him somehow. If he is telling me something for his entertainment and I say that I don’t believe him; I realize he will give me proof. After I get the proof I chose whether to listen to him or not.
        I make good use of my long-term memory to know when you are lied to. For example. When his last girlfriend broke up with him he told me that she accused him of having an affair. Anyway he told me that the other female the girlfriend accused him of is a cousin of HIS. (That was his truth). I know he is capable of lying so I remained neutral. A good while after the break-up I might ask questions about that relationship from time to time. I noticed that at two different times later he said that the ex-girlfriend accused him of having the affair with one of HER cousin. So in fact he was checking out the girlfriend cousin, but when they just broke up he said it was his cousin he was accused of having the affair with. When he mentioned his female cousin to me initially it was to make himself look good and to make the girlfriend look like a liar and unstable person. Use you long term memory to look for consistency in their stories. They can help telling lies but they don’t always remember what was told to you. If you are patient enough you can later down the line probe for the truth or the liar might voluntarily tell the story again. Listen for consistency. I normally wait for about three responses when unsure about his side of a story. If I get two consistent/same responses then obviously I know what he lie about and then confront him. He knows well enough now that I consider him a liar. I am not saying that I can detect every lie. No! But I have learnt how to patiently wait for the truth to surface or find out if his truth was a lie.

    • survivior

      Pamela-go to dailystrength.com and joint the group “women who love too much” its a group of people just like you and me who can support you and show you the way. also try reading “how to spot a dangerous man” and “women who love pyschopaths” by sandra brown.

      • Lucy

        @Survivor – Being a victim and a survivor of a Narcissistic Sociopath relationship I first did what you recommended by going to the DailyWord.com because I felt I needed some type of spiritual strength or reinforcement in my life; I felt lost and floundering. Once reading the Daily Word for a while I still felt lost. I started reading EVERYTHING I could get my hands on re: self-help recovery only to find I was more confused then I was before I started. I started to get angry not only at the person who inflicted this pain upon me, I started getting angry at myself for allowing it to happen. Not knowing what to do with that anger I started to self-destruct, i.e., drinking, manic and unbecoming behavior, smoking pot, etc. It was only when I started counseling/therapy with a professional and licensed Psychopharmacologist. It was only then I realized that I was causing this anger because I was trying to self-analyze and do my recovery by myself when I didn’t know what was wrong with me; I was grasping at straws. The unknown and problems started piling up one on top of another. It was only after being evaluated by a licensed Psychopharmacologist, starting medications, and extensive therapy was I able to start my recovery. It was after a few years of therapy that I asked my therapist about self-help books and their worth. She suggested that only once you have the tools to understand what took place, how not to allow it to happen again and being clear about STRONG boundaries, then and only then you could consider reading them.

        I can promise you I wish it would have been possible for me to go out and buy some books and help myself – it would have been a lot less expensive, although, it is only when you understand that the problems didn’t start with the Narcissistic Sociopath, the issue of wanting approval and or needing to please and to feel loved started way back in our formative years; if that need or emotion was not fulfilled at that point in time we will find a way to satisfy it later in life – I referred to mine as my “inner child.”

        Everyone MUST find their own way of dealing with these traumatic events in our lives, this is what worked for me. I wish and pray that everyone on here will be successful in finding their path to recovery and to becoming a survivor!! Blessings!

    • Lara

      I relate to this exactly. I’m still trying to move past the ‘mugging’.

    • Talia

      Pamela–I have been there…and though none of us can say we truly know EXACTLY the pain each of us are feeling–I know that your last paragraph is a learned response…you are NOT a fool, you are NOT and idiot…you DID NOT do everything wrong. And I know why you love him–because your love is “normal or unconditional” and HIS IS NOT. Friends and family will likely never understand your feelings…and that is not the goal. The goal is to take YOUR BEAUTIFUL LIFE and your NORMAL love for others and give it to others whom deserve it. It doesn’t have to be another man, either. IT can be a good cause, your church, a group of people who need your strengths and your addition to their lives. In time, you will be able to love another man because, in time, you will see that NO ONE EVER, NO MATTER WHAT DESERVES TO BE TOLD THEY ARE WORTHLESS. We are all on a level playing field. a doctor is no better than a waitress and a waitress is no better than a doctor…I am sure you can understand my analogy. We are all human beings who want REAL love and some people can’t, just don’t love…it’s like they are broken and they were broken LONG BEFORE you entered their life. Take the good, leave the bad. I know how hard it is…believe me I do. I became a certified life coach and got an associates degree in counseling AFTER my marriage ended over 10 years ago. Take the good, take your life today, as it is and walk forward–looking for those people around you that WILL LOVE YOU FOR YOU AND even more importantly, RESPECT you. We all want to be loved, as I said…and YOU ARE A WONDERFUL PERSON AND DESERVE a healthy-love-filled life…and hopefully…when you see the signs of this behavior again (in a man or even a female friend) I have seen this as well, in female colleagues…you will know to say “no thank you, I am worth more than this!” I wish you all the best!!

    • sdelph

      Pamela,
      I am in the same boat. I will be married 6 years in December. ‘Mick’ was so charming and ‘everything’ I’d ever dreamed of. After a 2 1/2 year marriage he ‘needed’ to leave me to go raise his son. (who allegedly sexually assaulted a little boy he was babysitting). He told me that we would live apart for 2 years and that if I’d stay with him that when we got back together he’d live wherever I wanted. (he alienated me away from family over a hour from my home) ‘mick’ didn’t work. He used the diagnosis of neurocardiogenic syncope to obtain SSDI. However, he had no signs or symptoms of the disease. I am a RN. I worked over 60 hours a week during our relationship. He had a way of making me feel guilty if I didn’t. He LOVED toys… When he left he sold off large, expensive items that I had bought and took half of the money. (over 9,000.00 total) We had a woodburning furnace and he let ME cut all the wood for the winter by myself. He knew I couldn’t work 60+ hours if he wasn’t there. I had a young son at home with noone around that I knew to care for him. After he got what he wanted and secured things for himself. He filed for divorce. He asked for everything he didn’t ‘take’, including the built in dishwasher, microwave, ALL of the furniture (none of which he had prior to marrying me). He asked for the hummer he wanted and I bought. The payment was 550.00/month and he is on disability! Against my better judgement and my lawyers pressing, I gave it to him. He lost it in 5 months. And I got to pay the remainder balance to the bank after it sold at auction! He also, asked for $950.00/month in spousal support!!! The divorce never completed. Narcissitic sociopaths ‘hang on’ to their ‘sources’. He KNEW where his supply was and although he pretended to play a martyr (having to leave when he didn’t want to to care for his poor little abused son) he actually had left to save his own hide. I discovered he was collecting over 760.00/month for his son that hadn’t lived with us for TWO YEARS! Like a FOOL, I loved him and I was SO blind! Noone could understand why I would take him back after all this. His only form of communication those two years was email! I took him back last June ’12. Only to catch him in a lie March ’12. We had our first ‘fight’ since he returned. His lie COST ME. When I confronted him he said I was nothing more than a good friend and that he didn’t love me any more. When I asked what he was going to do he said he didn’t know. I told him I thought he should leave. He supposedly lives with his mother in Ghent. He remained in contact via text and phone until he got all of this ‘junk’ out of my house. Once he got his stuff he cut me off. He only emails to this day. He has NO remorse, NO sorrow, he acts as if I am the one that is ‘wrong’. LIKE A FOOL, I love him. I email him and I get very short, curt, answers. I’ve proven so many of his lies, I know he never loved me, I KNOW he used me… yet… I love the ‘fake’ person he portrayed himself to be. And I know that person DOES NOT exist. It’s as if they brain wash you! I’ve read that they sort of DO. I am a Christian and have wonderful church, family, friends support. Yet I’m BOUND to my abuser …

  11. teri

    I really don’t know what to say except I have been all everything you have talked about, from trying to kill myself to just sitting and letting him be what he is, UNTIL it hit me right in the back of the head one morning , went down filed and disappeared and then I would pop back up, I started doing the same thing to him what he had done to me…the divorce is almost final….but I am really enjoying the lost look on his face, and the fearful , I know it won’t last long but buy then I will be gone….I have been his servant and a good one or I might say his shield for 34 years…I am finally letting it go…..I am in control and this all happened with the man upstairs…..and I do think they can be helped if they fall on their knees…that’s the only way! I really don’t want him to hurt I wish he would wake up and be the person he knows he could be , but is scared of failure….they are very scared people. But you can’t change them , they have to do it themselves just like you have to get out…Only us !

    • ok here goes. I am still in the recovery stage and looking for answers every day. I just dont get it.
      However I think that I took a giant step last night when I realized that these people dont think like we do? They are wired differently and that is now scientifically proven, so to engage in dialogue or try to understand their thoughts is futile, That is the reason they will never change. They cant. If you get that then you are on your way to a complete recovery. It is all so sad as you gave them all of you and expected that they were giving the same. Remember they mirror your behaviour and others behaviour too. That is why they are fascinated with the web and television. They can mirror what others are experiencing. they are great actors.
      My friend would counsel a female friend of his all about her relationship with her partner. He knew because he had been there too. He hadnt!!!
      Hope this is a help to you. There is nothing wrong with you or your reactions. It is just a horrible place to find yourself.

    • ED

      If he is truly scared, he is not a sOciopath, and he’s trying to manipulate you. You are going to have a hard time winning if u r not a sociopath yourself bc you have feelings and a conscious. I want my ex to hurt, I’m only human… But take comfort in the fact that, while its impossible for him to hurt, he will never feel real love, and nothing I could do to get back at him will be worse than that. when someone victimizes you, it’s normal to want to get back control over your life, but getting them out of your life permanently is the mos important thing.

    • sdelph

      I agree! The ONLY help for them is GOD. They are extremely SICK people. Something we can’t take personal because they pretended to love us and didn’t because they don’t love ANYONE. Especially, themselves. They ‘appear’ to adore themselves but deep down they HATE themselves. And with good reason!!!! They are cunning snakes!

  12. Frankie

    I am a musician and as part of my recovery therapy I was able to express myself in song and prose. It is all so sad to lose someone you loved but then to discover they didnt love you, or maybe they did in their own warped way. Remember that their behavious is learned. They watch a lot of television and they are great actors. It is never heart felt love or compassion. Education is your best defense but unless you have been there you really dont want to know about it. I find that a real shame. See if you relate to my song. The last verse are the words that he said to me when he walked away. Im not a bad man, I am proud of what Ive done? That gave me the title of my book and this song.

    If I only knew then…. what I know now
    Never been this road before
    You’re only crime was against my mind
    I seemed to join your living hell

    I tried to trust you from the start
    Not knowing what you said was right or wrong
    You took advantage of my heart
    That I know…………….now that you have gone

    I think I loved you
    Not really sure
    Or was it fascination that opened up the door

    The door that led to nowhere
    What a pointless shame
    It took me to an empty place
    Looking back on those days
    that wasn’t gain
    In fact it was a planned disgrace

    Don’t know what your plan is
    Don’t know if you cared
    You had my mind in your control

    My only crime was knowing all the time
    That one day you would leave me in despair

    Well did I love you
    I really do not know
    You left me all alone
    And no where to go

    I m not a bad man
    I’m proud of what I’ve done
    In fact think I’m fine
    Its not all about you ….its all in your mind
    I had you fooled all the time

    • Lucy

      WOW!!! Amazing while very insightful at the same time. Congratulations to you for being able to hold on to a part of “you” as your narcissistic sociopath did his best to dismantle you… your mind…. your basis knowledge of a self-sufficient daily existence. You can and will recover; you will become whole again — he will always be who he is because in his mind…he is perfect!! Blessings!!

  13. Having a few problems with my website but I can be contacted through that if anyone wants any informed help. I am a survivor of a psychopath but believe me it is ongoing. Right now I am trying to cope with sleeping as I dream and wake after having a terrible nightmare. That probably is your experience too. Does anyone know of how to deal with this?

    Thanks

    • I have a lot of nightmares too, but I really like to sleep. I don’t place much importance on my dreams and they are just silly dreams and I focus on how much I love to sleep to escape and relax and forget the unpleasant dreams.

      • Frankie

        When you are confronted with a sociopath you will not suspect it. However as you listen to their story alarm bells may start to ring. That is if you are a friend or acquaintance of this person. If you are close to them or in a relationship they have got you where they want you. You have bee carefully targeted. Even if you do smell a rat you will not feel like challenging them in case you end up in a battle. A sociopath will turn the confrontation back on to you and you will become the victim in the situation. You will experience confusion but remember that they are clever and articulate so word their story that you will not question. The stories will be stored in your memory bank and one day when you are certain that you are being lied to they will come flooding back. You can deal with the truth but you cannot deal with lies.
        One method of defence for a sociopath is to stop you talking to any of their friends or family. If you are unsure of any person then check out their story with their immediate family or friends. They will have their phone numbers well hidden and kept away from you. This is all a huge mind game which they enjoy to play, but they have to have someone to play it on. If this is you then get out as soon as you can. GET OUT!!! It may be years before you eventually have the strength to make the break, but by then your mind will be so tampered with that it will take an age to get back to normal.
        Pathological lying is usually the by product of a personality disorder. e.g. Narcissist or sociopath. Get on the internet and you will soon know what you are dealing with. Once you are a way from the person then all the lies will come flooding back. You have to come to the realization that you can believe nothing that was said to you. Nothing!!! After all there was no proof of anything anyway. Our natural trust in each other is a normality of life, and it is a refreshing one.
        Confronting a sociopath is not easy. Ask for evidence. They will try to change the subject so take them back there again. Stand firm and strong in your resolve. You have a right to the truth. They do not have a conscience like you and I. “Without Conscience” by Dr Robert Hare. Their mind set is different.
        Often their stories are so grandiose that you get caught up in the drama. Then you have to process it. Then you start to feel sorry for the perpetrator. That is what they want. They are insecure in themselves and usually have low self esteem.
        When you first meet up with sociopath you will usually be impressed by their knowledge and intellect. They can use their sexual attraction to lure you into the net. You will be so flattered by your new found friend that you will be proud of yourself. If you are warned you will dismiss the signs as you have been hood winked and are in a vice. Then you will start to question everything you have been told. And then you will have to deal with the pain.
        You may be prepared to hang in there with the relationship, but eventually it will end. Ask them what love is? They do not know and sadly that will never change.
        A sociopath will be careful when you are around with other friends. But then a friend will say to you “ did you know that?” . You will not believe it but they have started up again, and are running in first gear.
        Yes they are around and you may be close to one. Nice people but dangerous people to form a lasting friendship with as that is not what they want. They want a submissive sounding board. They are users and manipulators who will eventually strangle you. Hard heavy words but that is what they do well.

        You have become their victim.

        • This is great stuff, Frankie! You’re learning! Learning and growing. Good job. I just had a run in with a sociopath in my life. I’ve known the person for 2 years. I turned my back on them and they stole a $175 knife from me off my wall. This person had been in the house for 2 years and has been in many times, maybe 20 times. You never know when they are going to nail you. Could be the first time or could be the 300th time.

          I don’t agree that sociopaths are incurable. Psychopaths are, being there is something fucked in their heads. Sociopaths are created by the environment and are conceivably curable.

        • ED

          Robert- everything I’ve learned about Sociopaths has said they are born that way and it’s incurable. Maybe they can reel it in, but they are not cartoons- their hearts will not grow after stealing Christmas. I think it’s kinda dangerous to tell these people in here who have been so damaged that their “loved” one can be cured. I’m really not trying to be argumentative or pompous, I’ve just always heard differently.

        • Hi ED, answered in a post.

        • Anything you asked them that has to do with emotions make them fumble. They don’t have emotions so they can’t relate to it. Ask what is love and the response from them sounds like what they have seen on TV or read somewhere. Ask them about experiences of joy, inner peace, happiness, contentment,ect. They might not answer you or they might divert. However, if they do decide to answers you be prepared to hear some crap not related to what you’ve asked. Be awake! Because they can spin magic on the crap and pulled you in by your emotions. They then laugh at you.

          My buddy has been in relationship with a handful of very lovely females and not of these relationships lasted for more than a year at most. At the six months point in his last relationship he decided he was going to get married six month later. I even followed him to look at rings. As we spoke he made a remark and I knew he was not going to marry her.

          One day one of his ex-girlfriend came by to say hello. He introduced me to her. After she left I asked how comes such a very sweet and beautiful woman slipped through his fingers. He just smiled. I know that I can mess with him when it comes to emotional queries. If you should say, what did you like about her? His response will always be: “She has a nice personality.” But he cannot expand on what a nice personality is. I said: “How much did you love her?” He said: “I cared about her.” Cared how? One time I gave her this or I did such and such for her. Bottom line they can’t relate emotionally so I would get disconnected responses. Not that he cares but I would use that opportunity to show him he is without emotions and he knows nothing about loving a woman. All he capable of doing is playing with their emotions for his selfish pleasure. I don’t mince words with him. By the way did I say he seduced me.

  14. Amanda

    Robert-

    Great article, really struck a chord with me. I’m currently in the process of trying to disentangle myself from a man who seems ever-closer to your description of a narcissistic sociopath. My question is how best to go about this process. At first I attempted to placate him in an effort to avoid his rages, but now that he has shown himself willing to cross the line (calling my boss at work, showing up at my house in the middle of the night), I’m wondering if confronting him wouldn’t be a better choice. What is it that he wants? Would blatant condescension and anger lead him to lose interest, or propel him to further entrench himself in my life? I NEED to be rid of this man, and I cannot stand to live with fear as a constant companion. Next time he calls me, I’m tempted to remind him that our state of residence actively embraces the “Make my day” law- but I absolutely do *not* want to antagonize the situation. Still, I’m scared that if I ignore him he’ll only become more persistent. Please help- I need your advice.

    • I don’t know what this particular type is like. Just reject him, flat out. Narcissists hate that. It’s so humiliating to be rejected that they can’t deal with it. Mostly, they will just say, “Fine!” Something like that.

      • Frankie

        Robert, I have to laugh at your last comment cos it is so right! I heard my friend saying that many times. I would confront him and not coming to any conclusion he would back away and say “fine”. That is a manipulative statement as he has lost control and wants it back badly. It can almost appear to be a sign of maturity as he is able to put it behind him and move on? But thats what they are good at doing all their lives. It is a sign of weakness I have come to realize. When confronted with that comment I would now persue it and not let up until I have a resolve. Ask them about their past and they wont want to go there, and if they do dont believe a word they say. It a little bit of truth but a huge bit is lies. I wish someone had of told me that.

      • Rejecting or ignoring him might help a bit. If I am not getting through to my buddy I would simply ignore him. I talk to him only when absolutely necessary. And when I talk I use mono-syllables or short responses. When ignoring him I act as if he does not exist. If we are in a room I would carry-on as if I am the sole person in that room. Whenever I do this, if he has to talk to me or approach me for important reasons, he do so carefully and respectfully. He cannot stand the rejection. Even if he musters the courage to use charm to warm me up I kept my ground and a straight face – no smile or interest into what he is saying. If he gives you a give to warm/butter you -do not accept it. Here is your chance to do things on your terms.

        During the ignoring and rejection period make an effort NOT to look into their eyes. Look in another direction or look above their head. They target you to feed the emptiness inside of them or some other need. When you go cold-turkey they experience more boredom and misery inside and they can’t stand it. That is how I put my buddy under heavy manners. Whenever I open the channel of communication it is as if he was dying to talk to somebody for ages. Don’t be fooled because he is ready again for game playing in a day or two. Rejection and ignoring seems to work if you are important to them for whatever reason. Not sure if it is effective for all of them.

        • Freddy flint stone

          Why do you put up with this? There are plenty of regular people out there to befriend. My socio manipulated me for years, I could never see a friendship with another. It was all false. It has taken years to get over. Why do you want a false friend?

        • S Delph

          I have to agree; there are too many wonderful ‘normal’ people out there and we don’t need the emotional, mental, financial abuse that comes with narcissistic sociopath people. However, if you read about them they almost brainwash you into thinking they are so awesome that you NEED ‘them’. When, in fact, the leaches need you (their host) until they suck you completely dry and move on to the next host. They have NO feelings for us ~ NONE. and it’s hard to accept but we were just being used and that’s ALL.

  15. Krustie

    Not sure if I’m a narcissistic sociopath, but some of the symptoms seem to fit me.

    When I split up with my last girlfriend I went round to her work, and even threatened to reveal information which would mean she would lose her job, and her qualifications. All because of the offhand way she split up with me.

    I feel a bit ashamed about it now, so I guess I’m not completely irredeemable. Mind you, she was a bitch, and the guy before me got fucked in the head too after he split up with her. And I haven’t responded that way to any other girl. So who knows, some people must bring out the psycho in me!

    • You think there is something wrong, so you’re ok for now, but please stop this stalking type revengeful behavior. Yes, narcissistic sociopaths do engage in this sort of thing, particularly the males.

  16. Very interesting article Robert.

    One thing you pointed out in it was how there seem to be a scale and/or ladder from this disorder. In short what starts out as a Narcissistic as a youth experiences came grow into a more malignant Narcissistic traits and then onto Sociopathic behavior. If one was to look at this scale Narcissistic would be the lower end then malignant Narcissistic in the middle and then Sociopathic at the end. Now it’s my theory that they would get worse with age. Moving them through this scale and causing more dysfunctional relationship albeit family friends and/or business partners. Having lived with one for 17 years has given me the opportunity to see this throughout that time-line. Growing old scares them and denying “reality” become harder and harder for them. Also because narcissistic supply start to dry up this in it’s self causes them more turmoil and problems. Even normal people with healthy narcissism get hit with narcissistic injuries while growing old. But for them reality isn’t denied nor distorted so that most normal healthy narcissistic individuals will accept the reality of growing older and learn to live with it, not so for our other dysfunctional narcissistic counterparts. For those with unhealthy narcissism it worsen the disorder and they because harder and harder to deal with. They do mellow as in destructive behavior (i.e. drug use, drinking, violence behavior), but still can manipulate lie as well as emotional and psychologically abuse their children and caretakers. Most people find it almost impossible to be with them for any amount of time longer then a few hours and then often (adult children/caretakers) feeling “drained” and confused after spending too much time with these type of individuals. I believe this feeling of being “drained” is simply them trying to collect whatever narcissistic supply they can get from the person. Also being on guard at all time around them will have a emotional and psychological effect on that (victim) person.

    Again a very good insight into these type of people and yes, please if anyone comes into contact with them Run and don’t just walk away but RUN!

    • Frankie

      Yes James a lot of what you have expressed is so true. I thought that my mate had got over his lying and drug abuse, but I was to find out that he hadnt. In fact it had got worse. Remember these people are cunning and calculating. I was so blinded to this behaviour and just did not want to rock the boat. I too was drained by spending time with him. He was anti social which was also draining as I was constantly thinking that something was wrong, and it was. I will say it again His only crime was against my mind. You have to get it mate. That is where they attack you. You will feel like a narcassist yourself and need re assuring that you are not. Unfortunately they take others down their corrupt path with them. If that is you and you have the faintess idea that all is not right then I agree get out. Run as fast as you can. I am who I am through what I went through. It wasnt my choice to be subjected to such a depraved person but I just couldnt make the choice to run. Eventually he took off then I had the strength to tell him on the phone that I was no longer his victim and he neednt bother contacting me again. I am ready for him when he does.

  17. He walked out of my life in December of 2008, after I had quit-claimed my property over to him. we had been together for seven years and were engaged, so I thought it was alright to do. He was cheating on me(again)and left me for this other woman. He even left his cats behind. There are no words to let you know what devastation he has caused my life. I still cry over it. I would say RUN too..but HOW? When you’re IN IT YOU NEVER SEE IT COMING! :( I’m alot wiser now..and I WILL RUN..because I’LL KNOW THIS TIME. Thanks for listening, it helps to ‘speak.’

    • Frankie

      Nancy, it is so necessary to speak. Speak to the those who understand and dont stand in judgement tho. The majority of people dont get it. Talking is your safety valve. Most people will tell you that you are with a loser and just put it behind you and move on. I wish it were that easy. My ex wife has been my best support. She knew all along that this guy was bad. Try to read some books about sociopaths/psychopaths. Read these blogs and know you are not alone. Deep inside you there is a strength that you dont realize is there. Yes you can run, but you are probably dealing dealing with other issues as well like lonliness and insecurity. If you decide to stay in the relationship it will all happen again and again and cause you a lot more pain. Express your feelings we understand.

    • sdelph

      WHAT is the KEY to RUNNING???? HOW do you do it!? I can’t get there. I TRY. I try not to respond or contact him but… I break. EVERY TIME. It’s like I am brainwashed no lie!

      • Helpless

        You have to be strong. It is hard because you thought all that stuff he said was real and your feelings were real, but his were not. It is so hard to realize that it was all a lie. I have been divorced from my sociopath for three years and he still stalks me daily. I was coming home last night from work and a song came on the radio that reminded me of what I thought were the “good times” I started to cry. Then I saw him at the bar (he is on probation for DUI and hasn’t paid any child support ever and). I was pissed. He can spend money on women and beer and can’t support his child. Then he proceeded to e-mail me all night sending me pictures with several different women. Needless to say I was sorry I shed even one small tear for him last night. You just have to stay strong. What you miss wasn’t real. It was a fantasy. Stay strong.

        • S Delph

          My narcissistic sociopath has committed fraud against ssdi. He could work like a horse. And he claimed he was unable. He ran Business that he never reported and he kept 760.00/month for his son that didn’t live with him for YEARS.

  18. jo anne

    after 17 years of psychological, emotional, physical and sexual abuse, my marriage finally ended in august 2004. He had deprived me of every person, place and possession i had loved. The taste of freedom was overwhelming. Then he began to taint my clean slate and good reputation with slander and trumped up charges made at the police station. Then he had me wrongfully arrested and thrown into a stinky jail. Friends rushed to my rescue. Then he began to hire people to follow, stalk and watch every move i made. He is an orthopaedic surgeon and has plenty of money to destroy my life. My children and i have been robbed, mugged and our home ransacked. He has had all the wheels taken off my car, my car stolen, my daughters car stolen, my phones cut off, used cloned cheques to try and empty my bank account and sent two male thugs to terrorize my son in his bedroom at 4am three weeks ago. We are now fearing for our lives. The police have been useless so we are now in the hands of the department of community safety. A wonderful forensic psychiatrist is helping, advising and guiding us to safety and freedom. We are emotionally and physically exhausted from the past 6 years of unexpected terror and trauma and the devastating isolation that came with it.

    • This sounds almost too unreal to even be true, but I’m sure it did really happen. I’m so sorry you had to go through this. I actually can’t believe you have survived this with your sanity intact.

  19. jo anne

    it is a miracle that I have not lost my sanity. I would say that I owe that gift to my unwavering faith in God, my love for my 3 awesome children who have coped so well, a few close shocked friends, a job that i am passionate about, lots of excercise, healthy food and a daily handful of the best vitamines available, the natural positive strength that I was blessed to be born with, a wonderful psychologist and the enlightening, informative and liberating information I receive weekly via email from The institute for relational harm in America. Have learnt to take one day at a time and not focus on the past or think about tomorrow. We just keep praying that it will end and keep documenting every single incident and case number as we at last work with the right people.

    • Duronimo

      Hi Joanne. Yep, if it wasnt for my unwavering faith in God I wouldnt be here today. You see what is planted deep inside us seems to protects us and strengthens our inner self but it does not make us exempt from the circumstances and the pain. It is so difficult, but more so when people dont get it. Even your own family may not get it. This forum has been good for me but it is going to take a long time to recover. I am well on my way, but I fear for the other person in his life. I sincerely hope that it is not a woman as she will be more then devastated when she discovers his personality disorder .How can we protect her?
      I came to grips with the dilemma when I realized that these people dont think like we do. They are wired differently. After all you gave to the relationship, giving of yourself unselfishly, yet it all gets thrown back in your face and they go away laughing at you. Yes we do understand. Its horrible. You have the strength to overcome this and you will. The sun will shine again and the grass will be green again. God Bless you heaps.

      • They don’t think like us at all. I just dealt with another sociopath in my life. It took me a while to figure out just how sociopathic he was. I’d known him for 2 years and he had been in the place many times.

        Then when my back was turned, he stole a $175 knife off my wall. Then the next day, he was out there with his punk friends laughing at me, tormenting me, and challenging me to fight. The gall of these people. Granted this is a pure sociopath, not a narcissist-sociopath, but they are not all that different.

    • You’re an amazing person for being able to hold up through all of this stuff, Jo Anne. I don’t even know what I would be like if I had had to go through all of this. Probably going nuts by now. This shows the strength of your character that you were able to handle this and still come out of it ok. Shout out to you.

  20. Frankie.

    Sorry guys I went with my email name duronimo, but on this forum I am Frankie.
    Someone made a comment on actually looking at the devil in the face. That really happened to me earlier on in my relationship. It has happened since but it was sly and sometimes attractive. Hope you get that? Listen to your conscience, it will never let you down. For me it got louder and louder but you have to choose to go with it …I didnt, and on that score he won. He knew how to manipulate. Isnt that horrible. That is what they do.

  21. Lynn

    I have been married to a man for 20 years, and I am CONVINCED that his mother is a narcisstic sociopath. The turmoil this woman has caused in my life is nothing short of amazing. Sadly, her son plays into her hand every time. She is sick and gets great pleasure out of using peoples’ lives as a chess game. It has gotten so bad that I have had to limit all contact with her in order to try and preserve what’s left of my marriage and my own mental well being.

    I’ve found, though, leaving someone like this alone isn’t “good enough.” They will pursue you (at least this has been my experience). I’ll give several examples (although I could give far more):

    – I have a degree, so she (a highschool drop out) suddenly started proclaiming that she too had a degree, but this was only sparked by each time someone mentioned my education or training. It seems to bother her immensely. She then said she “had all the credits, she just hadn’t gone down and “taken the test.” Of course, having a formal education myself, I knew that wasn’t the way it worked. I began to (in a nice way) question her. So I asked which math, science, etc. did she take to satisfy the requirements for her “degree.” She was like a broken record and would only say “I’ve taken everything I need to have the degree.” So I’d ask again, but which science classes did you take? And she’d reply with the same statement: “I’ve taken everything I need to have the degree.” She repeated it about 6-8 times, until I stopped asking. Clearly, she was lying. And it wasn’t even a “good” or researched lie. It was disturbing to even witness.

    Another example. I gave birth to twins after having been married to her son for about 10 years. So she then declared (and only after I had twins) to everyone (including family members who knew better and had known her their entire lives) that she was a twin and THAT is why we had twins. She was a twin? NO ONE had ever heard this story before. Even her siblings that grew up with her and were there didn’t know of a “twin.” She then claimed her twin died at birth. Later, knowing it was a lie, I tricked her by saying “I know you said your twin died when he was close to A YEAR OLD, but you never discussed what happened.” She then said, “Yes, he was several months old and we just don’t know what happened.” Good grief! Shame on her for lying about something so serious. But I’m CONVINCED this person has no boundaries. She’s nuts and not even a nice crazy. She’s a mean, calculating person!

    The really bad part is that those closest to her KNOW these things don’t add up, yet they WON’T question her and they play along. This only enboldens her behavior.

    She is also a control freak. She tries to control every aspect of her son’s (therefore my) life. EVERY vacation and holiday she expects and tries to attend. Not only attend, but plan every detail down to having adjoining hotel rooms. I am embarrassed to say I went along with this for years, until a few years ago when I was older and wiser and so fed up I couldn’t take it any more – I said NO MORE. If it meant divorcing, I was ready to free myself of this madness. And madness it is.

    She is this way to everyone, but she seems to target me more than others. I believe she sees me as the ONLY THING between her and complete control over her son. The really sad part is that I’m more of an introverted personality, and I wanted a good family relationship. I NEVER tried to stop him from being close to his family. In fact, I wanted that too (since I lacked that with my own family. She preyed upon that, and has abused me for years. That is true. I finally got wise enough to see what was happening AFTER years of damage.

    My advice to any person dating is YES look at the parents too, particularly your future mother-in-law. It DOES matter. Run like hell if you see these characteristcs. Run and don’t look back. It will save you years of heartache and damage.

    • Frankie

      I feel for you Lynn. In fact I am talking with a lady from my work who is in the same position. Almost identical. You see, you are probably dealing with two issues. The sociopath and the controlling mother in law. It is just awful for you and I understand. I would not give you any advise as to what to do as you have a family unit to consider here. She wont be around for as long as you …probably?
      When I said that you should check the parents out first that was not to see what personality type they were.My friends parents are lovely people. Talk to them to learn about your future partners life so far. It will all come out.
      So what do you do from here. You have to be strong with your husband and take a stand. If you are going on holiday you go alone without your mother in law. End of story. Show some strength. It is not easy. Talk on the forums as we understand what you are experiencing. It is very common. Read some good books on the subject. Dr Robert Hare is the world authority on psychopathy. It is probably that that you are trying to deal with. Education is your best defense. Know what to expect and how to react. There is help out there but there is also a lot of pain and confusion. Rise above it somehow. You can, and you will.
      All the best.

      Frankie

      • Lynn

        Thank you for the kind words of encouragement. I’ve never talked with anyone who has had to deal with someone like her, or even seems to remotely understand this behavior. I’ve known people with bad and overbearing mother-in-laws, but not anyone who seems to go to no end to “one up” and have utter control like her.

        She is a tyrant. Again, though, she seems to target me more than others. Another example: She called me aside one Christmas after giving other family members (including those married into the family) very nice gifts, yet she gave me a cutical set. Yep, one of those sets you see in Wal-Mart! She wanted me to know, she said, “I always buy better for my own.” As if the $10 gift wasn’t enough of a message, while everyone else was opening $500 gifts. And then she just studied my facial expressions after telling me that. I cannot imagine doing someone that way, much less feeling good about it.

        She is a MASTER MANIPULATOR and before I realized it, I was going along with things I didn’t want to do. She has treated us all like puppets on a string. The really CRAZY part of it all is that she probably has the lowest level intelligence of us all, yet she’s able to facilitate control?

        The least educated and someone with little common sense, yet she is a master at controlling situations. Know what to look for people! She did it in a way that I’m ashamed to say I didn’t even realize for a long time. Another thing…I think people like this look to learn things about you so they’ll know how to access your life! I didn’t have a strong family unit growing up, so she would prey on that and do things under the guise of “this is how we do things in our family.”

        It has gotten to the point where I don’t answer the phone or the door to her. I let my husband deal with his mother. I can’t crack the door with someone like her. EVERY TIME I let me guard down, she is there to cause problems. Sometimes I think she’s up late at night plotting her next move to control some aspect of our lives.

        I just hope my daughter marries someone with a “normal” family. I don’t even hope for anything special anymore. Normal would be great.

        • Talia

          Lynn…I know how you are feeling and I realize you wrote this post a year ago…I have a mother in law…ditto, ditto, ditto. I don’t have to go into details…it gives her even MORE of an audience. I wanted to commend you on your decision to let your husband “deal” with her. We see movies like “Monster-In-Law” and TV shows like “Everybody Loves Raymond” and the writers try to make us laugh at these types of overbearing mother-in-laws…I commend you for taking a stand. At the end of the day…this is my belief only and I wouldn’t want to put it on someone else. IF if ever came down to a husband choosing his wife over his mother (which it’s obsurd to even be put in the situation) the husband needs to chose the wife and children.
          And please, don’t give up on hoping for something VERY special for your daughter…as you mention in your last paragraph…DON’T CHANGE ANYTHING GREAT ABOUT YOU BECAUSE OF HER BAD INFLUENCE…stay positive, stay secure, stay wonderful, keep your very strong boundaries and live your life with your husband and don’t think about your mother-in-law anymore. IT’S NOT SELFISH…it’s HEALTHY! Expect special things for yourself and your children…if you CHANGE anything because of her, then you will give her a foothold…THANKS FOR SHARING!! YOU ARE WORTH so much…and don’t deserve to be treated anything less than platinum! I could write more…but I think you have already mastered this and I am very proud of you. (I am a certified life coach) and I too, have to continue to keep my boundaries with my mother-in-law…or she would be in our lives 150% of the time. Again, thank you!

  22. Chadc0613

    I see very little about NPD women on the net but trust me, they’re out there. I was married to one for 12 years. When i first met my ‘wife’ she came on strong, pushing for a relationship almost immediatly, flattered me, told me I was the best sex she’d ever had—the whole routine. I eventually married her and once thoroughly in her snare, the mask came off and the noose began to tighten. I loved her, adored her and this is exactly what she craved, validation—i would do anything to please her, pamper her—she even bragged to my family of how attentive I was, the perfect husband.

    After a while, she seperated me from my family and friends, I recall actually apologizing to her when my friends would pull into the driveway unannounced. Over time, she systematically made sure I knew not to cross her, obey or be punished—it would always be very public and very obvious. I recall one Saturday and I was to be an usher at a wedding for a friend of mine, a young lady that wifey detested and she declined to go, though invited. The day of the wedding, I got a call from the bride’s mother asking me to pick up the champagne as I was leaving with my tux. I did, got to the liquor store only to hear my name announced loudly over the intercom. Came to the front of the store only to find the clerks laughing and giggling at me—my wife had called the store and told them to have me “get my ass home and take out the garbage as she told me to”. I did as I was told.

    Down was up, up was down, black was white and viceversa—I never knew how the rules would change. She would say she needed something done one way and would bitch unmercifully, then when that way was mastered, she’d change the rules and bitch because I was ‘doing it wrong’—and the rules again would change like she’d never made any other previous demands. I recall that the theme of our marriage was “Sue, I just wish I could feel I was making you happy”. But still I tried.

    Always desiring the center of attention, she would do anything to obtain it, even negative attention was better than none at all. I recently found her employment record, stolen from the state agency she worked at, hidden high in a closet at our home that accused her of several bomb threats at the office—-she never mentioned any of these accusations to me. I recall the bomb threats, even read about them in the paper but didn’t know she was involved. I also recall a family reunion, where we had no more than arrived and I left her alone with my aunts to get the luggage in, only to come back in to find my aunts wide-eyed in horror and wifey grinning like a Cheshire cat—no one said a word to me. I was later told that she announced to everyone in the room that she was having an affair and that this man satisfied her in ways I never could. This was towards the end of the marriage.

    What woke me up was a final argument after the reunion. She was having a ‘gotcha’ weekend where she’d lay her snare and wait till I haplessly wandered in—or not—didn’t matter, who cares, she was going to bite my ass—and she did, about 20 times over various ‘offenses’. I finally bristled and defended myself about 10PM on Sunday, told her I was at last tired of it, that she’d dug her spurs in for the last time, knock it off! The strangest little smile played across her lips as she went to her nightstand and took out her revolver, emptied the bullets out on my pillow. I’m sure she would have said she was doing this because she feared me—but the reality was that she was showing me, “See, I’ve got a gun”—and yes, it gave her back the control of the argument she herself had started. I slept behind a closed and locked door that night.

    Eventually she said she wanted a divorce, by then she thought she’d snared her next victim, the guy from the family reunion. I was happy to give it to her. She got an attourney, the best in town, a known ‘castrating’ female named Audry—known for accepting wives as clients and cutting the nuts off the men they were married to. I got my own lawyer, against wifey’s wishes. One afternoon I got a call from my attourney to come to his office where he told me Audry had called and said she would be willing to “Lie down” in the divorce. I asked what that meant and my attourney told me that it meant she would represent my wife but would give me whatever I wanted—representation only, no defence. I was confused until my attourney told me the whole story, that my wife had actually showed up at Audry’s office yelling and screaming, irrational, terrifying. Audry had called my attourney and told him “We’ve got to get him away from her, she’s nuts!”

    I got the house and car, her out of my life and it took years to recover physically, mentally and financially. But, I did survive. I’m now in a very good relationship with someone who really does love me—still the scars remain because of the years of abuse and I’ll always wonder “Was it really that bad”—-then all I have to do is remember her there, holding that gun and THAT reminds me “No, it was worse”. I still have post-traumatic dreams about the gun, about her.

    This only scratches the surface of what I went through, I’m sure you all can understand. Sorry this took up so much space here—i dreamed I was married to her again last night. Thank you all!

  23. Interesting, Chadco is describing an exaggerated sense of the modern female “attention whore” persona. Being that all women are attention whores, and this is the “Age of the Woman,” I would also say that this is the age of the NPD. And it is! Turn the TV on, walk through any popular pedestrian area, NPD reigns supreme today. All this Game/PUA bullshit is predicated on a mutually assured destruction involving the use of narcissistic weapons. Is “character” even an entry in the most current Merriam Webster edition??

    • ED

      R U being for real that “all women are attention whores”? I’m not getting a sense of sarcasm, but hopefully I’m wrong, and just missing it?!

  24. Jane Doe

    Oh the cop thing… wow, I am trying trying to walk away from a cop that told me a sob story about how his gorgeous ex wife left him and took him for everything he was worth… and yet he has five girls going at the same time, always and they all think that they are gonna mean something if they just continue to do the tight-rope walk for him. It is amazing how much I put up with and i was always sooo confused and tired. Yes, spending time with him for a very long amount of time just drained me to the hile, sometimes for days. I didnt know what hit me. I kept wondering if he even knew what my name was on some days and sometimes he would comment that I “assumed” much when I would confront him about things that were totally undeniable, like used condoms in the garbage can when he would ask me to clean his house that werent from me, and two empty coffee cups on the table (bachelor) when he would invite me over that night. It is as if he got a rush from knowing I was hurting all the time and it was just getting worse and worse.. then, when you finally get to the point where you cant get out of bed because you feel like you’ve been hit by a mac truck, several times over… he likes to act like you are lazy, something wrong with you, and he has to move on until,”you are feeling better..” The compulsion to lie and be in charge of everyone and isolate me from anyone that knows the two of us is incredible, even when I tell him I know he sees other people and so be it, he still has to play a game in his mind to isolate me from anything positive… and even though he never contributes any money to me and has a ton of it, he is constantly telling me it is unnatractive for me to be a full time student… should be working full time… and that his last girlfriend ( which he dumped) would give him sex whenever he wanted it.. why cant I? Because I cant get out of bed to take a shower so you dont comment on how I smell and that it is not good enough because I raced up to your house at six oclock in the morning to service you right before you go to sleep, and I have to leave before you wake up because I have figured out that you have another one coming over shortly after in the afternoon… Obviously this is fresh off the press for me, I just told him to stay away from me.

    Ex wife said RUN RUN RUN. How often are narcissists sex addicts as well as the whole bouquet of testosterone, booze, and whatever else they fancy from moment to moment. How do they charm and manipulate so many worthym, good, fresh innocent people?

  25. I met my N almost 3 years ago. At the time, I was in domestic violence counseling, and in the process of escaping my first abusive husband. My N own a coffee shop next to my counseling, and I would stop in for coffee after my sessions. Sometimes, I would leave my sessions, and would be very upset.
    One of these times, I was in his coffee shop, and he saw me crying, and started talking with me. He seemed very sincere, and very caring. Soon, we exchanged email addresses, and we became good friends. I told him everything about me, my husband, and my sons. Eventually, he asked me to move into his home, because my situation with my husband was getting
    very dangerous. We moved to his home, and everything seem too good to be true.
    My sons’s and I were living peacefully, without the threat of violence from my husband.
    But the peace only lasted for about 9 months before I realized I made a mistake. Slowly but surely, I became isolated again. My N lost his business, and was home with me all day long. By this point, I had to rely on him for his car, to get my kids to school, and to DV counseling, which he was very involved in. His home went into foreclosure, and he didn’t have any plans for our future, so I had to apply for housing assistance behind his back. The last 2 months were hell. I had to become an actress. I had to make him believe nothing was wrong. He must have sensed that I was plotting to leave, because he would constantly start arguments with me and get me emotionally charged and then turn around and call me crazy.
    Two weeks ago, he found out I was planning on getting my own place, and he was not happy. I was very firm with him, and I told him that he was ready to loose his home, and me and my kids need stability.
    I didn’t speak to him for the rest of the day, and when his 21 year old son came home from work, my N came into my room, and told me I was using him, and he wanted me and my kids out tonight. I followed him out of my room, and he walked to his son’s room, and his son came charging out of his room, ready to attack me, calling me a crazy bitch. My N grab his son, and they both left the home.
    He came back here today to get his mail, and told me my hair looked good. I ignored him. I am feeling soo stupid for trusting a man with my previous domestic violence situation, and I feel horrible that my kids had to witness violent behavior from another man.

    • Frankie

      I was just reading an article this afternoon about how a sociopath seeks out their victim. They will strike when you are vulnerable. You will think its Prince charming, come to take away the pain so to speak. They havent, they are predators. No you arent stupid Joni, you are normal. He is not! Get it? You have to get it. These people are dangerous and you are very lucky that he has gone. If you look back on your time with him you will find all kinds of deceptions. Its horrible. Now it will take time to get over but listen to this. The next time listen to your head and your heart will follow. I knew that but I didnt want to listen as I was lonely and thought that this person was sent to me. Well he was, but sent by some evil force to decieve and try to ruin my life. You will be ok but you must talk about it. Most people have no clue that these people are out there but there is so much information about them now that we are being educated. All the best.

  26. marika ketterman

    i am dealing with one of these “people” right now. after 20 years of marriage/hell, HE is divorcing me. suddenly. out of the blue, 2 days after discussing how/where we were retiring. he is in the military and is in afghanistan right now…i got an email. once i didn’t react “appropriately,” the mental terrorism began! this all happened in august of last year. he drops off the face of the earth (thankfully) for weeks and then pops up like the devil reincarnate. to add insult to injury, i haven’t been able to work since november 2009 due to my gulf war illness, terminal having finally gotten the best of me. i am sure that is one reason why he decided to split. i am no longer healthy enough to support all of his insanity. who knows. he has been a womanizer all the years of the marriage…i always suspected & the few times i thought i had him dead to rights, he conned his way out. everything is always my fault. including this sudden divorce declaration. a lot of his friends have left him because of his decision – i’m sure many are floored that HE is divorcing me – and it is my fault because apparently i have some sort of vulcan mind meld ability to sway the entire world to my ways..now he has managed to brain wash my son who has now declared me dead to him…
    it is not my “business” when he goes on r&r and where. i have already put 2 and 2 together and figured out that he is currently in country and with his newest conquest. my 2 daughters and i live in fear that he will suddenly show up and god only knows what will happen. and since he is in country, all hell has broken loose. phone calls from him and from his family members. and through all the devastation, he just snickers. he is enjoying the mental terrrorism he inflicts.
    inside, i KNOW what he is doing but after 20years of being mentally manipulated and abused, the habit of allowing him to terrorize me is almost impossible to break.
    since i can’t work, i have no income. we are terrified what the outcome will be when he comes home for good. i don’t have the mental nor physical stamina to fight him, my illness has robbed me of my soul. i am praying my VA claim comes through before he gets home, but i know it won’t. i am planning for the worst, praying for the best…although knowing even the “best” is going to be horrendous.
    we are at the devil’s mercy.

    • Hi hun, thx so much for this comment. I really feel for what you are going through. I am trying to think of some advice to give you, but I am not sure if I can think of any at the moment. Just try to hang in there. These scumbags are everywhere.

  27. frankie

    Yeah I am too Robert. I guess advice is not what Marika is looking for.
    I have been there darling and do you know what. If you can somehow change your negative thinking to positive ( its difficult but possible ) then it is going to work out for your good. All you can see right now is this huge mountain which you havent the strength to climb. I didnt have either, but I climbed it. You make a decision as to what you want to do, then set your vision on that goal and take off not looking to the right or to the left. You are strong, and dont suffer any of his seduction or abuse. Show him you have changed. Does this make sense at all? Think of yourself a year down the track. A strong determined healthy woman. He is a lion with no teeth. A scumbag to treat you like this.
    You are not at the devils mercy. Laugh at him. There is someone who cares about you far more. Change your thinking and watch the miracle Marika. All the best, you are going to be fine, in time.

  28. Susan

    I came across this blog by chance through search engine. Glad I did.
    I just want to share an experience.
    I was going through breast cancer treatment during a horrific divorce.
    While watching tv in another room in bed, a bottle of Xanax fell on the night stand and the contents fell into the slightly open drawer. I just shut the drawer and thought I would pick up the pills tomorrow. I fell asleep with the lights and tv on. I witnessed my ex sneak into the room, pick up the bottle, look at it, put it down and sneak out closing the door after him. He didn’t turn off the lights or the tv. He didn’t know I saw him. He went to bed and went to sleep knowing that I might have consumed an entire bottle of Xanax! Next morning he quietly came to the bedroom door to “check” on me. I surprised him that I was still alive and I told him I saw him my room and saw what he did. This bastard thought I took an overdose yet he could go to sleep that night? Of course he lied about it. I had a marriage counselor tell me that he’s a narscissitic sociopath and to get what I could, run and never look back.

    • Davey

      “a bottle of Xanax fell on the night stand and the contents fell into the slightly open drawer. I just shut the drawer and thought I would pick up the pills tomorrow. I fell asleep with the lights and tv on. I witnessed my ex sneak into the room”

      This seems very convoluted. You accidentally arranged the pill bottle to look like you had taken an overdose, and then accidentally pretended to be asleep?

      • Susan

        No. I accidently knocked over the bottle pills. The lid was not fastened properly. I chose not to pick them up when that happened thinking I would do it later. I chose to pretend I was asleep when he came into the room because I didn’t want to get into yet another argument. He had been harrassing me while I was on chemo treatments. He shocked me when he picked up the bottle and then left the tv and the lights on. I didn’t set this up as you imply by saying it was convoluted or twisted.
        It’s just another example of someone who feels nothing.
        My therapist told me that he is a narcissistic sociopath. Reading your post and seeing something so similiar made me want to share what happened to me 3 yrs ago. Now, I am sorry I contributed. Please remove my post.

  29. JulianusII

    I have a female relative going through that same garbage.US society seems to be a disneyland for sociopaths and the pits of Hell for decent people.All the best and God speed to Susan,Marika and Frankie .

  30. Do you have anyone who’s been raised by these beasts like me??? WHERE can I get help???

  31. Joanie

    I am pretty sure my father has NPD.
    About four years ago, my dad started seeing another women while him and my mom were still married. The first day of marriage counseling my dad walked in and said he would not give up his mistress, then sat down on the couch. The counselor told him that he had to because that was part of the terms of agreement for counseling, but he literally said he ‘didn’t see why he had to.” After the counselor made him leave, the counselor told my mom to look up Narcissistic Sociopath.
    Anyways, long story short my mom has been battling my dad in court ever since because he does not want to help pay for anything (child support, school activities, ect). He claims he has no money, which he doesn’t, because his 85K income goes to payments on a lakeside lot, a cabin, 10 boats, a house in MN, a rental house in CA, and his 2009 mustang. In Feb., we got into a huge fight because he didn’t want to do the non-custodial CSS Profile (thankfully) we got him to do it but now its late for a couple of the colleges I applied to so I have to appeal for financial aid.
    Which brings me to my next question, I applied (and was accepted) to some really outstanding colleges that mostly give need-based aid. Although I did get some merit aid at these schools, my dad’s assets and income raises our EFC to something that my mom cannot afford and he has said that he ‘may’ help me pay if he ‘ever has money’. Is there any way I can get him to help foot the bill, even just a little? Or will I be forced to take out loans/go to my financial safety school that is not nearly as good and will not provide the same opportunities as the other ones.
    Any advice is really appreciated… whenever I talk to my dad about anything to do with money I always walk away from the conversation crying and feeling as if there is something the matter with what I said/asked for. Is my mom just being overly generous or is it ok to ask him to help pay?

    • Jackie

      Joanie, it may be helpful, depending on the school and state, to just tell the financial aid people that your parents are divorced or are in the process of getting divorced, that you aren’t receiving child support, that your mother isn’t receiving alimony, your mother files her taxes separately (hopefully, she is doing that), and that your father is not contributing materially to your support, provided, of course, that all of this is true. Financial aid people deal with the financially-abandoned children of deadbeat fathers all the time, especially in states where the fathers are not legally compelled to provide child support for their children through the completion of their college degree.

      Unfortunately, you are not a party to the action between your parents, so you have no legal grounds to compel payment. Your mother does, and if her lawyer is unwilling to fight on her behalf and your behalf and the behalf of your siblings, all of whom are entitled, guilt-trip-free, to be supported by the father who has income and who has assets that can be sold if so ordered by a judge, then either your mother needs to hire a new attorney with some gumption or she needs to bone up on Family Law and do it on her own.

      I would not suggest taking out a loan for college; I am sure that you have read the horror stories about the huge loan payments that are greater than the income generated by one having a college degree, unless one is very lucky. Pick a college that you can afford to attend with a Pell Grant and a part-time job. Deal with what is, not what you want it to be. And what it sounds like you are dealing with is a selfish, immature, irresponsible father who would rather everyone else suffer than he be inconvenienced, rather than a father who has a vested interest in the comfort, happiness and future professional success of his children.

      Hope this advice helps.

  32. Freddy Flintstone

    Thanks so much for this site. I lived with a sociopath for 3 years. He knew I had just sold a property and was my ‘best friend’ while he spent (or borrowed) my money. As soon as the money ran out ($60,000) he was off, never looked back. When I asked for just the loan back he spent 45 minutes on the phone being abusive saying he would prove it was a gift and that he had just taken me for a great big f****ing ride. This is the man I thought I would spend my life with until the actual day he walked out! I have since found three other people he did the same thing to. He has now found a rich relative who he is living off… the cycle continues. I feel like I was hit by a charismatic, gorgeous, evil tornado. I am three months down the line but can’t trust my judgement about anything. I have asked myself if it is worth carrying on many times.

  33. Virginia

    Hi! When I first started reading the posts I was afraid there would be no current ones and am glad to see everyone still posting. None of the stories surprise me since who my daughter married someone who is more extreme in some ways than anything I’ve read. I have diagnosed him as a “mild psychopath” but the two seem so close, what is the difference between the mild psychopath” and the narcissistic sociopath? I have found no chat for those who have survived the psychopaths, but interestingly, England has acknowledge their ability to lie and win court cases and has formed a legal group to help individuals and businesses win their cases against these manipulative liars.
    My daughter’s husband has stabbed us all in the back whenever possible beginning with me before they married. He told my husband I was having an affair and it tore up our marriage. Later he said there was yet another man and then another (which was hilarious since this friend was 100% gay.)
    12 years of living accused killed much of the love I once felt and though we are still married and he now does not believe any of it is true, my intimate feelings are simply dead. He did something similar to my older daughter and she did end up divorcing her husband.
    My daughter (his wife) knows he has a problem, but is always forgiving him and trying to make it work. Then he will pull something and they fight and she wants out and then forgives and the cycle goes on. It keeps me torn up inside. Here is the “short list” of the most major things he has done to her.
    She is an alcoholic/addict and he knew it when he married her (I told him in front of her) and used it to control her. I thank God she has gone through rehab and has not had anything for over a year and attends her meetings nightly with joy. This is the one positive thing, but you will wonder how she is still alive and able to change with such a man trying to keep her under his control or kill her.
    He brought his first mistress to befriend his wife and help with the children while he continued to help her drink or take pills. The mistress and her husband even went on vacations with them and once he paid to have her husband fly to another state so he could be with the mistress. Fighting was awful with both my daughter and him out of control. His mistress seemed to have become my daughter’s friend…(ha) and confidant, so when the affair was unearthed, my daughter who discovered it was devastated and angry. The night it broke, both his parents, my husband and father and the mistress and her husband were all at my daughter’s home. The mistress finally admitted it. My son-in-law never has. He says she is making it all up. He said they had no contact, yet the affair went on and ended up with her having a child (who will be my SIL’s but no paternity test has been done. Her husband had a vasectomy.) After the child was born, there was proof he had continued the relationship. I could give soap opera details all night, but will move on.I
    I am making a HUGE leap over incidents to get to another main point. Just after my daughter had returned from a 3 month rehab (all her docs and counselors there KNEW her husband was the biggest problem for her to maintain sobriety and sanity) and had wanted her to move 2000 miles away for 6 months to remember who SHE really was and to grow.
    It was near Christmas and she had been over one night talking with my friends helping me decorate and all of us were thrilled to see her in such great shape. I had my daughter back, I thought. The next day, her husband took her to a mental hospital under the guise of getting her medication right. He never told anyone she was an addict and before she could, they had her on so many drugs, she didn’t tell. Meanwhile, he is arranging for her to have shock treatment and worst of all…BRINGING HER DRUGS.
    I didn’t know it at the time and he had fixed it where the doctors could not talk to me and had gotten her to give him her power of attorney. He was telling us he didn’t want her to have the shock treatment and promised there was a meeting with her doctor we could all attend to discuss it. Instead, the shock treament was done (he had given her more drugs just before it) and nothing I could say stopped it. When she came home, she told me about the drugs one afternoon, drove off to pick her kids up from school and had a Grand Mal Seizure on the school steps with a teacher holding her head so it wouldn’t bang on the sidewalk and an ambulance was called.
    She came to my house when she left the ER and stayed for several weeks but eventually went back home to care for her children. He has made her look like an awful Mother by making a show of what he does for the children, but they both love and fear him. Their 7 year old son has temper tantrums, their oldest is a nervous wreck and the youngest is somewhat left out at times and I worry for her just as much as the others.
    This sick man works for my elderly father who just cannot believe anything I’ve told him could possible be true.
    I’ve watched my SIL lie so convincingly, I understand why he fools people. He can shed tears if needed, threaten suicide to scare people enough to not challenge him, NOTHING is out of reach for him to try to have his way. He is a greedy, dangerous man. I’ve saved my daughter’s life twice now. The first time, he was going to allow her to drink herself into a coma and die.. Someone called me and said he was driving her around displaying her passed out, so I went to their house to help her. She could barely walk. Meanwhile, he was eating a piece of cake and told me she was just fine when he last saw her. I walked up to slap him., not out of meanness, but to let him know I KNEW he was lying. He ducked and I slapped him very hard on the second attempt and he made a fist to hit me and I said..”Please do”… It will only help me convince people how you really are. He hates me because I am know what he is.
    The second time involves her coming to stay with me after the seizure and is not as dramatic. I look at what is happening and think…”How can this be real”? How can life have become such a total mess?? Years and years of mess.
    I have talked with my daughter about mild psychopaths and if you can tell me the difference in the one you discuss and them, I would like to know. I’ve made a layperson’s diagnosis, but whatever, he is evil inside and somehow, I want him out of her life.
    BTW, he was in law enforcement (still has many contacts and uses them), is an expert shot and was so aggressive we thought he might be killed. This was in a time when even I thought things were better and Daddy hired him.
    I know, I cannot change things. I simply stand in his face so he won’t dare kill her. My daughter will ultimately divorce him, but never be free of him. I can foresee the hell of being divorced from him.
    Meanwhile, he still strings along Mistress #1 and has most like had a child with Mistress #3 or 4. She is oriental and he is from an extremely racially prejudiced family. In one text, he referred to her as his “Chinese Chink”.
    That is the short version…
    I need a therapist and finding a good one is difficult.
    I sit her almost out of breath after thinking through it all at once for the zillioneth time. I need support and hope to find answers here for me and for my daughter. Someday, she must run, but I do not know how she gets far enough away…….

    • Susan

      Virginia,
      You never survive from being in a relationship with narcissus. The only thing you can do is break off any contact with the master manipulator. Never let that person have another chance to work you over. Unfortunately, this might be impossible if that person is also a parent to a child in the relationship so avoid all unnecessary conversation. Our marriage therapist told me to “get what you can get, run in the opposite direction and never look back. That man is a narcissistic sciopath”.

    • melissa davis

      Omg, ex tried to commit me several times. He lies about me, acts concerned about me to others but tells me to kill myself or threatens me. People cannot comprhend this. I have ptsd & major depression as a result. I found his 1st wife. He did the SAME things to her. Yeah, he was charming and I feel hard for it. He is also a sex addict. I am surviving. I WILL FLOURISH. YES, a spiritual program helps too. Stick with your daughter. Peace be with you.

  34. Susan

    I am trying to divorce my narcissistic attorney husband. He would not leave our home even after repeated requests. Finally, he was being verbally abusive and I called 911. While waiting for the police, he scratched his face and I was arrested for assault and battery. Never thought that could happen to me. I spent the night in jail and while there, he stole my money. Keep in mind that he is an attorney. I have a restraining order against him. Funny that the judge denied his restraining order against me and gave me the restraining order. Anyway,for the past three months, he hasn’t signed the joint petition for divorce. Now it is costing me plenty of money and stress to get divorced. He never stops. He’s like the energizer bunny…he keeps going and going. Now he’s using the legal system to try and destroy me. It is amazing how charming a narcissist/sociopath is at the beginning of a relationship. Their definition of love is completely different than that of a normal person. Narcissist/sociopaths are not capable of love.

    • Jackie

      I was married to an abusive NP attorney, too, and yes, they are very good at using the law against you, making you look like the bad guy, and charming the system so that you doubt you could get an impartial, much less sympathetic, judge to hear your case.

      It’s great that you were able to get a judge to see through your husband’s bullshit. Makes me wonder if, in the process of gathering evidence to convict you for battery, the DA ordered a scraping of the skin under your husband’s fingernails, which would reveal his skin cells and not yours. I hope that by now, you’ve been able to get your divorce and move far, far away from him and his sphere of political and legal influence. In my experience, it takes considerably longer to get such people out of your head.

  35. Vanessa

    To read all these stories leaves me with conflicting emotions. On one hand it is so reassuring to know that there are others who understand, but it is at a terrible cost for you all.

    I thought that my ex-partner was a narcissist, but now I suspect he is a lot more than that. went from being an assertive woman with a professional job in a shelter for abused women to becoming a woman who ended up fighting for her sanity.

    No person, no matter how confident you are, or how educated you are about such people like the narcissistic-sociopath, is safe from these people when they chose to charm you and to lie to you. I had spent so much of my work-life empowering women to only choose healthy partners as an abuse counsellor. But I think we can all have vulnerable times in our lives. I was having a weak moment by feeling a bit tired of being on my own for so many years, and was a little lonely at 39 after waving my only child off to university.

    I swear he smelled the potential exploitation a mile away when he first saw me sitting alone at the restaurant table reading the newspaper.

    He came to me with nothing but the smile on his exceptionally handsome face, and a mouthful of lies of believing in God, who he said he had prayed to just before we met to send him a companion who could help him on his journey to becoming a better person. He told me that he had been spending the last decade recovering from a horrific marriage where his ex-wife emotionally tortured him, and that he still suffered from her abuse since they shared a child together. He had been forced to close down his successful company since she had been granted by the courts 100% of his income. I, the woman, who teaches others to be vigilant, threw down all her defenses and felt so much sympathy for such a wonderful, recovering man.

    I admired his strength to endure, and bought him food, took us out for lovely meals, lent him money, bought him clothes, and thanked God for such a wonderful man that I hoped to spend my future with.

    After I got pregnant and he got me to buy properties for ‘us’ in my name only, including a shop for him to re-open his business from, and a derelict house that he promised to renovate in time for our baby’s birth, the mask started to fall. When I complained that there were no windows in our temporary home that was to be his shop he got angry and threw a half-full water bottle at my pregnant belly. He started to kick and rip things apart in our home. When I would insist that he treat me with respect he would rage and rant.

    I prayed to God that my partner would get help, and begged him to find it. Then I broke both my feet and I was relegated to a wheelchair. Now he really had me. When he wanted to taunt me he wouldn’t help me get to a bathroom. he’d lie in our bed and refuse to help me get back up the ramp. You could literally see the pleasure he got from watching me try to push my heavy, pregnant body up the ramp to only fail. Once he pushed me down a hill in my wheelchair in a temper tantrum and let go when I was heavily pregnant. Like the rest of you say I could go on and on about the horrific things that he did to me. In between each incident he would beg for forgiveness and say that he would learn to get better.

    The violence got worse, and the mind games became so bad after our baby was born that on one day I remember staring at a spot on the floor and I promised myself that if I could just keep looking at it I could save myself from him.

    After that day when the spot on the floor started to move and become actual things I knew that I had to start to argue back. I would yell at him when he would do things like leave our infant baby in the bath unattended, or when he would try and tell me that I hadn’t seen what I had seen.

    When he assaulted me three days out of four just after Christmas I knew that I had to get my baby away from him. After another conflict with him when he refused to hold our baby when I begged him to let me have a break, when he walked out of the house I raced to lock the back door, and I barricaded the front one. I had had enough. I was saying NO.

    And that is when he called the police who came and listened to him calmly tell them that I was a violent, abusive woman. Inside I was frightened, disoriented, and afraid to tell all the truth for fear that my baby would be taken if the truth came out about how violent our home was. He successfully got the sympathy of the police for long enough to believe him and arrest me with assault charges. Being an honest person I had offered to them that I had slapped him in defense on two occasions. The police man chuckled and mocked the lightness of my countering to my partner’s assaults before he announced that he was arresting me. I was made to leave my infant baby with him and spent half the night in a jail cell. I will never forget being torn away from my child.

    A month after I was arrested I learned that he had taped me shouting at him. I also had to listen to recordings that he had made of me sobbing on the phone as I begged my mother to come and look after my baby because he refused to help with her, when I had to put on a family Christening in our home for thirty people. When I heard these recordings and read their dates I finally understood why he he had been trying so hard to to provoke me, even assaulting me to get me to react. Then he would lock up the recorder in the basement in his locker before coming to bed to tell me he was sorry and that he loved me.

    These people are so disturbed and can leave us like a pile of burned up ashes if we are to let them. He is still trying to make my life hell, but I believe that my daughter and I will be free of him some day. Because I am an avid journal-keeper I was able to turn over to the police a lengthy record along with many emails that recorded his crazy, abusive behaviour, so now he has been charged with nine criminal offences.

    Friends, always document everything that they do to you. And if you can’t find a person to listen to you, keep searching. I finally found a police officer who did listen. And my faith and need to survive such cruelty keeps me alive. I used to want to die, but now I am smiling and getting my life back.

    I found a box of tapes that he made of his ex-wife when he would call her to harass/abuse her long after they were separated, and papers that reveal all the lies he tells to me and to everyone that he meets. These people are cunning, but can also be very stupid.

    I hope that you all find happiness by resisting these people for long enough so they become part of your past.

  36. Susan

    Vanessa:
    I feel your pain. It was so humiliating to be placed in handcuffs and shackles, booked and spend the night in jail for something you didn’t do. What most people do not realize is that the narcissist at home is not the same person in public. In public they are charming, the big spender and the life of the party. At home, they are critical, judgmental and heaven forbid you point out their flaws. All hell breaks loose and the tirade goes on and on. I am glad that we have no children together and I look forward to the day that we are divorced. As a friend of mine said who knows and has suffered at the hands of my husband, “the air will smeller fresher when this is all over.” I wait for the day.

    • Vanessa

      Thanks so much for your comments, Susan.
      The air is already fresher smelling, thank goodness. Like Robert said in his opening about how ‘…you are sitting there, dazed, shaking your head. “What the Hell was that?” It is just too hard to notice anything going on in your life when you are with these people. I felt like how Robert described every day, and never was able to understand it because I was too much inside all of it.
      I am so sorry to hear that you went through a similar experience with the law. I can safely say that it was the night of living hell for me. It sounds like you are incredibly strong to have come through like you have, and still have the energy to wish others the best.
      Because I did get away I can now look at it all and think that every experience that happened to me when I was with him has somehow made me stronger. I can only say it because I am free. Even as he continues to work hard at making my life miserable I still feel a joy in having a place where I can hide that he can’t get me. I can tune him out of my mind when I am with my baby daughter. Sometimes it is only for minuted before he comes roaring back into my head. But even minutes of joy with my daughter are enough to help me heal.

      But If I had stayed with him my family believes I would have eventually wound up dead. My mother still fears for me alone in my home. She saw him once when he was frenzied and crazy after he built a steel barricade to block himself in the basement because I had told him for the first time that I wished he would leave me. When he is angry he loses all sanity and had no sense of what he was inflicting on others including our baby. The man would complain to to me regularly and to our couples therapist about not understanding or feeling empathy. And I knew from my education that that without it it is pretty hard to exist without hurting people in ways where the sky is the limit in regard to the damage they can do.

      So now I think I am a better, and a less judgemental person for it all. I used to sit on the one side of my desk thinking I understood the women who told me their horror stories, but I didn’t, and I was arrogant to think that my training and education would always allow me to spot such people. WRONG. I am a lot more humble now, and think that now I can really do my job, and am more passionate than ever about advocating against such people.
      In forums like this where we can share and unite, hope can be found. This is my first one to contribute to, and it has left me feeling empowered and like somebody understands. My family understand in one way, but in all other ways they don’t understand at all. Thank you all for writing on here so I know I’m understood, which is one of the most empowering things of all.
      Good luck Susan. Oh, one more thing. I’m not shocked that you ended up getting your restraining order. There appears to be no rhyme nor reason as to why some people can so clearly see through these people, and others are oblivious. I have had friends who disassociated after giving up to my protests of declaring that he was a good man. So they stopped coming around because they got so creeped out by his behaviour. And there are the others, sweet people who he had floated in and out of their lives, using them when necessary who have written to me to call me everything evil because I am destrying the reputation of such a wonderful, suffering man. Thank Goodness you got a person who saw enough to give you the papers to protect you.

  37. Graeme Robertson

    Hi Vanessa. Wow, what a typical story. It reaks of the personality of a sociopath / psychopath. You even use the right terms, e.g cunning, disturbed. They are very manipulative and cruel. After years of abuse at the hands of one of these men I was set free of him. I thought that he was my closest friend. He was my enemy. I used to pray the Lords prayer every Sunday at church. Deliver us from evil! During confusing times I would pray to be delivered from this man. When I was, I had to adjust as I had become almost accepting of his behaviour. It is not acceptable! It is evil and cruel and you were chosen by him to be his victim. Your story is believable to me but to many it is unbelievable. People dont want to know. Try to maintain your sanity. You dont have a personality disorder, HE DOES. Keep in touch as there are people here who know what you are going through. God Bless you Vanessa. He cares.

    • Vanessa

      Thanks for your kind, enouraging reply, Graeme.

      Yes, I used to pray to God to literally deliver me out of this hell, too, away from the evil of this man, and to take away the anger that i felt in reponse to being treated like I was a piece of dirt.

      Yes, I had also become so accepting of his behavior from minimizing and normalizing everything he was doing, and at times I totally believed him that it was all my fault, and that I was asking for too much. He woudl spend hours building his cases of why it was me who was wrong when I would have caught him doing something horrific. But my stomach kept screaming at me that what he was doing was wrong, and that he was evil. Still to this day, though, I pray for him, that he will heal somehow by getting help so he can at least be a decent father to our baby. But that is in God’s hands. And yes, Graeme, my faith combined with the presense of my baby daughter and my wonderful 22 year-old daughter has kept me alive and sane. Since the bust-up at times I have felt that it is just too hard. But then I think of my children, and of my faith that God and the universe will look after me. I will still try to be a good person and a good mother.

      My best wishes and blessings to you too, Graeme. I hope that you have a safe, narcissist-free future.

  38. Char

    I have a younger brother and a younger sister who are both Narcissist saciapath and for years they both made my life a living hell and for now they are both out of my life, my greatest fear is that they will try to get back into my life. I love your post keep up the good work, we need the support.

    • Vanessa

      Hi Char,

      First things first: I hope you reward yourself ALOT for being strong enough to have your brother and sister out of your life. It is hard enough to walk away from somebody who isn’t blood, let alone people that you have been entwined with all your life, no matter about the pain that they have caused you. You have accomplished one of the hardest things when it comes to these matters: you are living free of them. Every day without them will move you closer to becoming so strong that if the day comes where they do try to get back you will be ready to say ‘No.’

      I found that the hardest thing was figuring out that my ex-partner was sick, and that he was too abusive to be living with. It wasn’t until I had no choice but be away from him that I really got to see who he was/is. That was one of the hardest things in my life, facing up to the truth about him. You already know the truth about your brother and sister, so I pray for you that the rest regarding them will be downhill. Don’t ever forget your boundaries that will protect you from them, and your right to respect. Never let that belief slip away even for a second.

      Best of luck to you.

  39. Susan

    After having a major mealtdown last Wednesday, I saw a new therapist who told me “to stop beating up on myself.” I didn’t cause all of the problems I am experiencing, my husband did. These words are so true. I sat and reflected as to how my situation got to this point. I even looked at old emails from him and looking at these now, I can see how he manipulated every aspect of my life. Everything was my fault or someone else’s fault. He never took any responsibility for any of his actions.We have no children, no joing assets no real estate and he won’t sign the divorce papers.

    He came to my house with the police to “inventory” his personal property. He went through every room, closet, my kitchen cabinets, my dining room china cabinet and if you can believe this…he went through my refrigerator. Was he really expecting that I was hiding his “stuff” in the refrigerator? Go figure!!

    My advice to anyone who suspects that they are dealing with a narcissistic sociopath is Get As Far Away and As Quickly as you can from these people. They are poison and toxic.

  40. ausearth

    nasty type very nasty
    I have a brother that got a bit upset if you didn’t agree that he was right.
    yet he manipulate all sorts of trouble around him.and pretends to be the fixer. the day came that i didn’t agree with him that Science justified slavery,
    that was the day I woke up that this guy was really warped
    Now I get shit slung at me from all kinds of directions, mostly vile lies of hatred told to ones that are close.
    He mainlining an lot of people and they eat the shit of his face.(Charming)
    One day he will cause someone or himself some serious harm.
    yet in his mind it is those around him that need his help..

  41. Terri

    My daughter was married 7 months to this man and it took twice as long to divorce him. I have been a psychiatric nurse and he has 95 percent of the characteristics of a narcissistic sociopath. He has now physically hurt and left bruises on my 15 month old grandchild. He has 4 other children and has been placed with safety plans with our locali DHR. Howevere, he is not moving on. He will cuss her, threaten her, stalk her, and continuously text or e-mail. My daughter is not a stupid person- believe it or not she is a domestic relations attorney. My husband is also an attorney and it amazes me that this person can play the legal system better than they can. He tells her she is insane, she is the one that hurt my grandchild, he is going to take her away from her, and professes his undying love for her. If you have any suggestions how she can handle this situation, or we can help her please let us know. I am truly afraid of what he is capable of and all she wants is for him just to go away and get out of their lives so if you have any suggestions please help her.

  42. Sad & Brokenhearted

    I am in a 3 year relationship with a man who I believe is a narcissistic sociopath. He was very charming at first, said all the right things, did all the right things, amazing in bed, so much fun to be around, took care of all of my needs, etc… I fell madly in love with him and went from being a strong independent woman to a dependent shell of who I used to be. He slowly isolated me from all of my friends and family and every activity that I enjoyed. He made every decision for me, including what I wear and what I eat. He has been very cruel to me, calls me terrible names, insults me, makes things up to upset me and then later tells me it isn’t true, wished my family dead, etc…. He has been emotionally and physically abusive. The emotional/verbal abuse occurs daily. The physical abuse doesn’t happen much, but I have been pushed backwards to the ground more than once, one time narrowly missing hitting the back of my head on the bathtub. I have been put in a headlock and punched repeatedly in the skull. I have been punched so hard in the jaw that for awhile I couldn’t open my mouth, couldn’t eat certain foods, and have been seeing a dental specialist to try to manipulate my jaw back in to place. He has tormented me by using my fear of snakes against me, like planting rubber snakes in my car, under the seat, and also around the house. He is a pathologic liar…lies about everying…even insignificant things. Will lie about things that are unnecessary to lie about. He needs constant attention from everyone…especially women. He was unfaithful to his ex-wife with five different women, but told me he had changed, he had gotten that all out of his system, and that all he wanted was to be married to me and have babies. He calls me a whore even though I have never been unfaithful to him and have been with less than a third of the amount of people as he has! He said it’s cool when guys sleep around, but women are whores when they sleep around. I paid to have his vasectomy reversed because he didn’t have the money to do it. I thought he was serious about us being a family and having children and I believed all of the things he said. He is a master of charm! He could charm the panties off of a nun! I have caught him in so many lies. I’m not even sure what is true or not anymore. I have caught him on more than one occasion texting other women behind my back and lying about it. He swore he learned his lesson and would never do it again. I kept track of his text messages to make sure he was being honest and recently discovered the numbers weren’t adding up. His phone was missing lots of texts according to our online account. I questioned him about it and he swore he wasn’t texting anyone else. The next day he put a password lock on his phone so I couldn’t look at it and a few days after that he took me off our cell phone account so I couldn’t view it online. For the next month, he still claimed that he wasn’t doing anything wrong, just was tired of me invading his privacy. Well needless to say, I discovered that he had indeed been cheating on me with another woman who did not know that I existed and felt absolutely horrible about what had occurred. He has a porn addiction, views it online and deletes the history and has many porn magazines that he hides around the house. He says this is normal for men, but I was married for 10 years before him and I know this isn’t true. He is a police officer and loves to be in a authoritarian position. He is very arrogant and cocky and disrespectful of his co-workers. Most of the people he works with do not like him or trust him and his boss has told people he wishes he could fire him, but has no valid reason, and he really is a damn good cop. He is a drug and meth specialist and is very good at finding drugs and getting them off of the streets. I am devastated about his affair and I have never had these feelings of pain, hurt, betrayal, confusion, emptiness, lonliness, etc… As much as all of this hurts me, I feel that he is mentally ill and doesn’t have a lot of control over this stuff…the lying, the cheating, the meanness, etc… I love him so much. More than I have ever loved any man. I don’t want to give up on him or abandon him. How do I help him? Of course he denies he has a problem and tries to reverse all the blame on to me, but I know the denial and the blame game are part of his illness. Everything I’ve read recently about narcisstic sociopath personalily disorder seems to indicate that this is difficult to treat and I should run away as fast as I can, but I do not want to live without him. Yes he is mean, yes he lies, yes he cheats, but I have also seen a wonderful vulnerable side to him and that is the man that I love. I want to help him be that man all the time and know that he doesn’t have to pretend he is someone he is not. I don’t know why he is this way, but his brother is quite similar…both seem very preoccupied with women…almost like teenagers…constantly talking about hot women and asking each other “wouldja?” meaning would you do her? It’s almost like teenage boys. It’s sad. They lost their father when they were in their early 20’s. So I guess I am asking…what can I do to help him so that we can be together, but that I can also have a normal life where I can talk to my friends and family and go places and have outside interests besides just him? And how can I ever trust this man again? His word is no good. I can’t believe anything that he says and every day he leaves for work, I get a knot in my stomach because I worry about who he is calling, texting, seeing, flirting with, lying about, etc… PLEASE HELP ME!! We have tried counseling for our relationship issues and the jealousy and stuff, but he has never had individual counseling. I continue to see the therapist now, who advises me to get out and never look back, but I am hoping there is another answer. Any thoughts would be appreciated. He goes from saying he hates me and wants me out of his life to he loves me and can’t live without me. I have spent the last year packing my belongings and finding a new place just to have him say he wants me to stay and so I unpack, but without days (sometimes only hours) he is back to he hates me and wants me out of his life so he can be free. He calls all of my attempts to communicate with him “bitching and nagging,” and says that is why he doesn’t want to be with me. I am tired of the BS, but I love this guy. Everytime I look at him I see a lost confused vulnerable little boy who just needs somebody to love him and understand him. Right now he is telling me we are in this together for the long haul, but if that is true, something has to change. What should I do?????

    • ED

      Sweetie… No one can help him. He’s a cop and has almost killed you. In addition, this “love” that you feel us not really love… It’s a reaction you have to his craziness. He is doing it on purpose. Read “Attached” – love should not drain you. All he does is keep you on your toes, and you only think it’s love because he keeps pushing and pulling.
      Also, read “The Art of Seduction …” it’s all there. Plus, you are right – its not his fault he does all these horrible things to you… But its not something that can be fixed by you, or anyone else. And I will put money down that he is a crooked cop. He probably sells half the stuff he confiscates!
      You think I’m kidding? Read some of these other stories. He does not, and never will love u or anyone else, including his children (just ask some if these bloggers!!) My NSP even used his kids to manipulate me… Introduced me to them within a week of seeing him, then told them I’d never leave them!! Warning, warning!! Told me my friend hit on him and that my sister unfriended him on FB. I think I was saved by the fact that I KNEW je was a sociopath-I even wrote it down and he found and read this list I’d written to myself,, and I think he cut earlier then he would’ve bc he knew I was onto him. I was so lucky!! He came into my life (for the secind time) the day after I found out some very devastating news and he exploited the hell out of it. And I let him.
      But he made me feel so crazy, I started reading and I was able to turn that knowledge into something to help me drop the scales from my eyes and understand exactly what happened and why I was reacting so strongly to him. He did some horrible things to me when we dated when I was 18, and the fact they he had custody over his kids made me think he had changed (I know a lot more than I did about this condition just one year ago). He came on so strong I just diddn’t resist. He rescued me a couple of times and then yoyo’d me around. Even his own grandmother tried to warn me away from him!! I’m so lucky he decided to move on so quickly, and that I have such a smart, supportive fam, or I think he would have not left me so quickly. He did not win any of my family over and I think that’s a huge part of his game, is to get everyone on board w him before he isolates his victims. He left me for a woman with children in their 20’s, and he was friend’s with her kids first, before seducing her (he was afraid to grow up). Then tried to get me to be roomies with him bc “his kids just missed me so much”. Fortunately, I was listening to my intuition again by that time… I laughed in his face. Then his new lady started texting me thru his phone, telling her, no doubt, that I was calling and stalking him. He’s so pathetic, and not smart enough to be truly effective! And, man, did he blame everyone else for his crappy ass life… How can someone lie THAT much?!? These people really should just be shipped off together.
      In short, he doesn’t love u, bc he can’t. Literally. You aren’t helping anyone by staying w him, bc he is on to the next before he has even left u, screwing up their heads as well. U think he has only cheated once? Not likely!! and they get off on affairs with women you both know. This NSP, just like a previous blogger, would bring his girlFriends into “babysit” his kids (he has a total of 5 kids) and “befriend” his wives (he’s had two).
      No one can tell u what to do, but I hope y make it out safely!! That sucks that he’s a cop but it sounds line the others know, so best of luck!!

  43. Hello my friends. I am still here. Had some issues with my email and then I couldn’t log on. I will be commenting again soon.

  44. Karen

    Great post…imagine being with a Narcissistic Sociopath on drugs….not a fun ride. My heart goes out to all dealing with these types. But what doesn’t kill us only makes us stronger and hopefully wiser!

  45. Karen

    Sad & Brokenhearted or anyone else having trouble leaving…there are only two choices. Stay and fight and get your arse whooped or worse. Or run away and look at it as a big lesson in life and tools for you to use in your future. If someone Loves You….it should feel like they Love You…Love is Not Abusive. Good Luck with your decision.
    Here is a great website for anyone that is interested in breaking out of their own patterns. Joy2meu dotcom.

  46. Not a sucker

    Sadandbrokenhearted, I’m so sorry you are going through this. I feel you are in denial about this man ever loving you. Love is not possible for these men because they honestly do not know what love is, except to use the word in the attempt to manipulate people for their own gain. Their brains are different from yours and I know that is so difficult for a normal person to accept but you need to accept it in order to ever have a happy life.

    You say that you see a vulnerable little boy when you look at him and you are partly right. People like this have very shallow emotions and can have temper tantrums or episodes of pouting or brooding that mimic what you would see in a hurting child. However, they are doing this because they didn’t get their way when trying to con someone, or the girl they were trying to sleep with, rejected them or they didn’t “win” at the expense of someone losing.

    You say that you love this man but it seems that you love what you had hoped this man would be, based on the initial “honeymoon” period of your relationship, when he was trying to win his “prize”, which was you. He looked at you at a prize, a plaything, an extension of himself, like a new pair of shoes. Of course you are not to have friends or family around, of course you are not allowed to have your own interests or any semblance of independence. I mean after all, his shoes don’t have or need those things, neither do any of his possessions, so why should you? The only problem is that you are NOT a possession, you are a living, feeling, wonderful person who deserves to be in a relationship of equals in which your partner genuinely cares about your wants and needs This will never, ever happen with a man like this. It’s like hoping that a shark will magically turn into a cute puppy, it’s impossible because they are two different species. Your boyfriend is simply not the same “species” as you and never will be.

    I understand your addiction to him. It’s very similar to a crack addict. After getting that first high, which is the best thing they ever felt, they spend the rest of their lives trying to duplicate
    that initial feeling but they never can. They soon lose their self respect and end up doing things and putting up with things that they would never think of doing when they weren’t addicted. Soon their entire lives are ruined and in shambles, all because of their addiction and that futile chase of that first crack experience.

    It seems that you are in this cycle, just like that addict. I’ll bet you say to yourself, “but he was so wonderful when I first met him, he was everything I could have ever wanted in a man and I just need to get back the “real him” again.” the only problem with that is that wasn’t the real him, it was a great acting job in order to obtain his new possession. The man you have described above, is the real him. It’s so hard to accept but you must. Please don’t waste your life loving someone who can’t love you back and who doesn’t care that he can’t love you back because “love” is just a tool in his arsenal to manipulate. I wish you peace and strength and hope you find your true self again. She’s in there, I know it.

    • Heartless

      Pretty talk for a pathetic “specie” as you put it. We are of the same species as you are. We just don’t lower ourselves to pity things as emotions and friendship. I wouldn’t have any problem killing everybody, I am 15 and after 10 years I am still manipulating people to get what I want. Put on an innocent smile and people are like putty in my hands. Who knows you might be one of our pawns.

    • Car Guy

      Not a sucker,

      From my readings and my experience, I think it’s also important to add that by her insisting on staying with her narcissistic partner, all she’s doing is feeding his demented ego. So in a way, she’s the fuel that keeps him going. Thus, she’s both directly and indirectly the source of her own perpetual suffering.

      Sad & Brokenhearted, you have to understand that being around him and giving-in to him makes him worse — abusive and spiritually destructive — as a human being. You’re making the situation worse, so stop fueling this dangerous man.

      It’s OK to feel sorry for him, but do so at a far distance from him. Save your sanity.

  47. one who remains cold

    You don’t know much about narcissists or sociopaths at all do you. Let me tell you how we think and how we function. We are empty, we lack all emotion I would kill my mother without hesitation and I’m only 15. We manipulate all of you without you noticing and when we get what we want we toss you aside. Some of us have been like this since childhood, for example I’ve been like this since I was 5 years old. Not one person has noticed me to be like this, since I put on the pathetic happy mask. So here you go, the basic mind of a narcisstic sociopath, but I am alot more complex then that.

    • mud

      hey, one who remains cold, the way you state your case makes me think you are pissed that your people are so stupid and don’t seem to care. if you want to, you can throw off your narcissist sociopath identity and put your energy into being on the lookout for somebody who is not a fuckhead. one friend can make life a lot better. the people who are worth being friends with aren’t easy to spot, but you won’t at all if you’re not looking. meanwhile, don’t do anything that ruins lives (including yours).

  48. mud

    I’m drunk, and my narcissistic husband died recently, so take it that way. Husband #1 was a narcissist prick, after more than ten years of his completely brutal bullshit I started threatening to stab him and after he threw a milkshake at me I tried to hit him with the car, but my mistake was to apologize. Luckily I developed multiple sclerosis and we had a dead baby. He went away, but unfortunately he ended up in the nuthouse and I took him back, but luckily I still had m.s. so he went away. Cancer would work too, from what I’ve discovered. Still, he tries to get back together from time to time but I am now immune. Due to husband #2, who was a whole nother kind of narcissist. Or I had it figured out. He threatened me once and I told him I would kill him or he would kill me, I didn’t give a fuck. One of us was going to prison for life. He looked at me like I was nuts (oh, I had my hands around his neck, squeezing, but he was a strong guy so it felt like a bug). I walked away to think about things but so did he and he never talked to me like that again. I didn’t apologize, I had learned better. Probably he apologized, but that wouldn’t register with me after years with this type. Apologies are complete bullshit, you should in fact try to avoid getting any because they fuel resentment and cause retailiation. Anyhoo. I would love to talk about husband #2 all day, he was a wonderful six year old. What you have to know is that you have to give the narcissist rules and do the bit where you know things that they didn’t think you could find out, so that they think you know more than you do. They will try to behave. Husband #2 was a beautiful man. He was horribly abused as a child, and was sincerely loving when he felt secure. I took classes in foster parenting before I got with him, so I understood him very well. Well, I was abused in some similar ways, so I got it that way too. For example, someone would do something extremely insulting, and we would discuss why it was best not to set their house on fire. Normally, he would have just set the fire or else tried to hang himself, so I feel we had a beautiful symbiotic relationship and no one was hurt.

  49. Car Guy

    Robert, I finally found the post that your were talking about.

  50. Halime

    Thanks for a wonderful article. I met a guy and I told him 2 days later that he fits the description of a sociopath. Of course he denied it and then I guess he decided to “play with me” he would be nice and sweet one day and then cutting my heart out the next day and then acting like nothing was wrong the next day. Wow. This lasted for about 3 months until I realized he must be narcissistic also. Funny how I found your article today and happened to be watching an episode of Law and Order and the shrink said “what do you get when you cross a sociopath with a narcissist? A ticking time bomb!!” That is the fact Jack!!.

    I enjoy learning and have been doing much reading on this subject and if I may share a link to a free 450 page book online written on Psychopaths please. It is called The Mask Of Sanity written by Dr. Harvey Cleckley, MD

    http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF

    Very interesting reading.
    People may think I am crazy, but I have discovered that when babies are left to continually “cry it out” without being comforted they shut down. They learn not to trust anyone and there is a name for this, I just forgot what it was. My mother did this with my half brother. They even video taped him when he was around 3 months old just laying on the floor crying and crying. How someone can do that to a baby is beyond me. Babies have immature nervous systems and need boobies to suckle on and need to be comforted when they cry!!!!!…It does not spoil them, it makes them a happy and content baby. I know, I raised a child who never had a tantrum…lol….When asked, my mother replied “Babies at this age try to control you, you have to let them cry it out, it is good for their lungs”
    I almost fell over. HA HA. She is an alcoholic and now my brother is a 24 year old CLASSIC sociopath. He is like a rock, no feeling for anything except his own pleasures. He also copies everyone he hangs out with. Never his own person. Who ever he is hanging out with he starts dressing like them and talking like them, until the next one.
    Sad.
    Sincerely,
    Halime

  51. Freddy Flintstone

    What’s really confusing me is my friend fits all the stereoypes – charming, manipulative, convinced me to ‘lend’ him $60,000 over several years of our relationship and then changed to a verbally abusive, cold person when I finally said I couldn’t loan him money anymore and then just walked out wanting no further contact (he lives on the other side of the state now)leaving me totally shocked and devastated. However, he continues to pay back a small amount each month as per our agreement so maybe he does have some conscience after all… there is nothing in this for him (except perhaps his reputation). Are there degrees of sociopathy?

  52. Jacob S.

    From Jacob S.

    Hey out there,

    Ok, this has been a hard couple days for me. I Never knew what a sociopath was, nor a narcissist, and i have been dealing with pretty bad mental illness my whole life. I found a website, Profile of the Sociopath at http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

    I almost had a heart attack. I fit EVERY DESCRIPTION of a sociopath except the Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity part. I came from a pretty rough childhood parents divorced when I was 2, got viral meningitis at almost 3 mom remarried had another kid an I was back-burnered, rough time in school, tried to fit in any way i could with peers, then puberty hit and BAM i became very anti-social. My mom instantly went the medication route. Didn’t work. And i started hiding my feelings. Lying became a norm for me and I would say or do anything to precipitate gain for myself or take the spotlight off me. As a result I ended up in trouble with the law at around 14, 15 years of age. Spent time in a juvenile prison in my state for robbing someone at 16. I didn’t WANT to be helped. Nothing was wrong with ME it was everyone else that had issues.

    I got married at 18 years old, fresh out of job corps (and jail) and had my son at 20 an daughter at 22. Went the mental therapy and meds route and disability too. But even used THAT to my advantage. Needless to say I’m divorced from that self induced wreck of a marriage, never see my kids, have been homeless and struggled with drug addiction and alcoholism all my adult life until recently. My whole family thinks I’m the plague and now I’m in another relationship with a new baby boy. And my way of thinking hasn’t changed. I just have gotten better at being horrible I guess.

    Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Right?

    My question is this. After last night (yes just last night) when I found out what a sociopath was, and that I fit the bill almost to a T, Is there any help for me? I love my woman, and my son, (I think, seeing that sociopaths are almost incapable of true loving) and I WANT to change. I SEE the destructive actions and thinking and how its already tearing up THIS new family, and I don’t want that anymore. Ugh even as I’m typing this I’m getting tight chested and angry. WHY? I honestly DO see what I’m doing, I’m SUPER paranoid, always thinking I’m being done dirty and my woman is fed up, rightly so. She’s still hanging on in the hopes that it’ll all be better one day. Will it be? There isn’t any treatment for Anti-Social personality disorder right? Unless the person WANTS to change. Are there tools, or anything at all that can help me, save us and keep my new boy from being like I am? Because I WANT to change!

    PLEASE, any help or suggestions would be so so appreciated, I’m at my wits end and I have this tiger by the tail and if I let go, I’m afraid this will just spin out of control and the whole process will start all over again.

    Loved the article by the way. looking forward to any reply. I just don’t know what I can do to make this go away or how to live and cope with this. Maybe I can use it to make myself a better person somehow? THAT’S what you call an oxymoron lol!

    • Frankie

      Jacob i have just read your plea. I have a couple of things to say.
      It is obvious that your enviroment and upbringing has played a sad part in your life. In fact your life has been quite a mess so far in many ways. One thing in your favour is that you recognize your sociopathic characteritics. Most sociopaths and pyschopaths dont. That is the start of your recovery my friend. Basically you are a good guy who has stuffed up along the way but is wanting to change. To offer advice on here would be wrong other than there are people out there who can help you. Seek out some professional help. I did and I got through the wire!.Different circumstances but I didnt think anyone could help me. You need to talk!!! So glad you are on here. I cannot diagnose you and I would not. Hey read some books about this P disorder. Dr Robert Hare is a good author on the subject , although his area is with psychopaths. Big difference. Good luck buddy. I get a good feeling about you. You have been honest and are intellegent. Determine to change and you will. Keep us posted.

  53. Susan

    Our divorce started in November 2004 and was final in September 2007. He did everything he could to be impossible. Since then, he has appealed the settlement 3 times. Each time the Appeals court has remanded it back to the lower court and each time he appealed again. The process takes 1 year to complete each appeal and it’s now 2012. We are going to trial again. He has stated that he will continue to appeal until this comes out the way it is supposed to (his opinion) or until he has forced me by financially ruining me to accept what he decides. He will not settle. What’s going on in his mind? How can I make this stop? It’s gone way beyond crazy.

    • Jackie

      Would it be too flip to say, “Move to Florida and let the Stand Your Ground Law work in your favor?”

      • Susan

        Jackie,
        I don’t understand your comment.
        Would you explain what you mean by “Move to Florida and let the Stand Your Ground work in your favor comment?”
        Susan

        • Jackie

          Sorry. I’m not really advocating violence here. But in Florida, the “Stand Your Ground” law says that you have the right to defend yourself from any physical threat that you may think is eminent, whether you are at home or out in the open. Bluntly put, if you think that you are going to be physically harmed by, for instance, the narcissistic psychopath stalking you, then you have the right to defend yourself by blowing the assailant away. It’s a very controversial law, and one that I do not subscribe to because it is vigilante justice.

  54. Ed

    At the local barI go to, there is a very phony guy who brags about all the young girls he sleeps with, people he has rescued over the years….He relates a story how his girlfriend is getting reconstructive breast surgery done because of cancer and then “draws the lines of the new breasts” directly on the person he speaks to. He made the mistake of telling one person that he does this just to see how far he can “push” a person he is drawing lines on, (ie. will they tolerate the rude behavior) Everyone eventually found out. His girlfriend really had cancer and did get the surgery. He was clever and unempathetic enough to exploit the circumstances of her illness.

  55. Linda Aten

    Given recent events would you characterize Rush Limbaugh as a person who exhibits the traits of a Narcissitic Sociopath. Check out Wiki bio for historical and personal information.

  56. JK

    You say a sociopath is a ultra-narscissist because he doesnt have that much emotions. But a narcissitic characteristic point is that his emotions are too intense. That is the opposite.

    Source: exp with both of the disorders and pschycological experts while trying to treat them

  57. etype

    I lent a text-book narcissistic sociopath a couple of thousand when they were in a tight legal jam. When it was over I asked them to pay me back, and he said F U jack. I said ‘blah blah blah – you were in a jam and i help you out and this is how you repay me?’ They laughed at me. Because I have a policy that if I lend money to a friend, I’m equally responsible and therefore not entitled to be surprised if I’m ripped off…I let it ride.
    Years later I was in a terrible jam and needed ten thousand for legal fee’s right away, which I did not have at the time. My friends who were not narcissistic sociopaths where all like ‘oh that sucks harsh, but I just can’t do it now…I’m so sorry but we’re tapped…’ and so on… and squeezing the wifey in sorrow that I had to get flushed down the tube because they couldn’t lend me money I could pay back in a month…cuz they had their eye on a new hyhundi, suburu or a cancun vacation. I was fucked…I had too many ‘normal’ friends.
    But the narcissitic sociopath heard about my dilemma and impeding destruction and moved heaven and earth… to make sure I got that ten large… without me asking him. And never asked me once to pay him back, and I never did pay him back…but if he ever needs it I’ll be there…no matter what.

    So I don’t really believe all the general dirt on narcissistic sociopaths. We are all narcissistic sociopaths to a certain degree, or we are liars. The greatest number of perfectly functioning narcissistic sociopaths are women… they feel entitled to it and don’t like anyone encroaching on their trade, unless it benefits them…it’s the ‘who benefits’ thing that bothers them. The ‘victim’ mentality is a hallmark of the classic passive narcissistic sociopath, certainly those who act in narcissistic sociopath groups they call ‘special interest’.
    In fact I can’t think of a more pathetic individual less worthy of the bullet they deserve than the ‘normal’ person. They are a metastasizing cancer who’s only credit is they are no worse than the other hundred million worthless sacks of shit bravely trying to forge a mostly meaningless, insect-like existence of uncompromising stupidity and infinite indignity.
    I despise normal people really. I don’t hate them… it’s just the self-serving stupidity and fakeness. One thing about evil people is they are generally honest – they will warn you they are evil, and if you get burned – you learn.
    But people who think they are good – they will burn you the minute they see a vulnerability and then brand you as evil and hop around like a monkey jabbering how ‘good and holy’ they are…and they will move mountains to maintain their charade of ‘goodness’. And if caught red handed, they cry crocodile tears of sorrow on cue, hide behind the skirt, and then lay low for awhile wondering how to effect their next act of profitable ‘goodness’.
    I much prefer narcissistic sociopaths really. Much better drinking companions and partners in crime. It’s not for the deluded or those who can’t learn to take care of themselves….those are better off in the protection of the herd. Human cattle I find uninteresting and generally sacks of shit and that’s about all.
    So my vote here is ‘for’ the narcissistic sociopath. May you live long and prosper you fucked up magnificent bastards! Life would be dull without ye.

    • I’ve had quite enough of these assholes for one lifetime. I do know one narcissist at the moment, but I keep him pretty well controlled, and he’s not very sociopathic at all, he’s just a narcissist. He’s actually not a bad human being, but I would not get that close to him. He’s too into himself, and he’s not interested in you at all.

    • As a general rule, these people are pretty much bad news. But as I said, I do know one narcissist at the moment. I won’t get too close to him, but at the distance he is at, he’s actually a pretty decent person to me. He’s not particularly mean like a lot of them are. He’s just pretty self centered. Plus I don’t tolerate his shit.

    • The problem with hanging around with bad people is that after a while they usually rip you off or harm you in some way or other. I like to hang around with bad people, and usually they harm me in some way or other.

      The guy who I wrote about at the beginning of the article is just nasty. My skin is still smoking from my encounter with him.

      • etype

        burn the creep… trust me it will be most satisfying. The only sociopathic narcissist I really can’t stand are those who really are not good enough to warrant the mantle of narcissistic sociopath. The wannabe’s and those deluded about their own self worth. Not as bad as the righteous and stupid … but along the same line.
        A half decent narcissistic sociopath is always interested in ‘you’. This means you have something worth having…and they wouldn’t mind it. A reject from the righteous is never interested in ‘you’, they think they have everything already and you don’t and never will…..and are not only boring but haven’t learned yet how to be the worthless sack of shit they really are. So they are not really narcissistic sociopaths… just bugs waiting to be squashed.
        Devise a plan to give the creep his comeuppance, and teach him to stay out of your space. Make your plan as nefarious and evil as possible… and don’t hesitate to pull the trigger. It will be a life affirming experience… it’s pretty much a mile post in life. This is why good is often said to be born in evil – for good often comes of evil… and this is why shitbirds travel in great flocks.

        • Christine Moore

          “etype” Jeeez…you sound like one yourself…kinda creepy…

        • Gloria

          Yikes Etype,

          Have you been drawn into being as evil he is> Revenge is a dish best served cold? Keep in mind, they seek pleasure when good people become as they are. If they have the encouragement of a spouse or other family, you will be the one seen as Sociopathic. Ignore, him/her, tell anyone and everyone who they are and what brought you to this conclusion. Advise the people you share this pertinent information with to arm themselves with literature on the subject. In time, hate ceases, their insults appear frivolous, pity is felt for those who continue to remain their victims and they soon become an afterthought.

  58. etype

    thanks Christine, to a certain degree yes.

  59. Tiffany

    My Ex knew I just broke up with a guy I was engaged to, and that we were supposed to be married in 2006. My Ex said very kind things and was loving. He became my partner at work and the relationship was great even though he was 13 years older than me. He told me he was a captain in the Air Force during Desert Storm. And he was a police officer and worked as a task force guy for the county he lived in. He told me he was relieved of duties and retired from the AF because he had heart problems, and he had been in an Accident similar to( what my other EX had been in—but the newest EX did not have any scars). That we worked for many different places. That his 11 yr. old was from IVF and his 18 yr old–burned his garage down–at 8 yrs old–mind you– so he returned his kid back to his mother. He was the perfect guy. All that changed when I became pregnant, and over the past six years he grew more and more distant. Our sexlife was like a chore for him–he would sometimes even roll over and go to sleep. He had me and half my family convinced that no one could do anything with out him. He made sure I had no alone time on his days off. He got paranoid at one point and started reading my emails, my texts and facebook and twitter accounts. He was hiding over $700 dollars a month and we were sinking financially. We were loosing–he even over ate so no one else could have seconds. He was constantly putting everyone downn. he never took the blame . He was fighting with co-workers. He actually had multiple email accounts. He also had multiple cell phones. He was interviewing for jobs and a flying on fighter jets in Vegas.
    He would yell at my girls ages 5 and 12–blaming them for everything. Get 6 inches or less and scream in their face. Pure Hell we were living.

    He put down everything I did–Everyone was always wrong and he was always right. He is still playing mind games.

    I found out the truth —he went AWOL from the AF, he was never a cop–never on a task force–nothing he told me was true. He told his family I was a mistress–that is true—we were married–but surprise he was married to his second wife. His family knew the truth but never told me because they thought I was this home wrecking person and he was happy.

    he pretends he is all that–lies still about HIS kids and who and what they are—he Lies about his kids–he tells his kids Lies–then they tell his lies. You even tell his Lies–your family will tell his lies and once the truth is found out—it feels as if you are mugged/robbed/ He tries to take everything–knocking you down over and over—he enjoys the head game. If you try to play a head game he turns the tables and HELLO—new Game–he is no in control of.

    He is always a hero or victim—people either love him or hate him.

    Ladies Run-don’t walk—A guy like this is a catagory 5 hurricane.

    You will wake up one day being upset and mad–wondering What was that—Honestly you have to RUN RUN RUN and never look back.

    • S Delph

      My husband told that he dated Ashley Judd. But he broke it off because she lied to him and said her name was Tina. He told that he was asked to travel, sing, and record in Nashville with two different country bands. That he dated a news anchor. That he wrote a lot of the silly songs that are on bob and Tom. Lol. I’ve proven many of these a lie and presented the truth to him. He won’t acknowledge or respond to the lies. He just gets more hostile. I never believed him but I kind of just ‘ignored’ what seemed like harmless lies… Lies are lies and if they’ll lie about things like that, they will lie about ANYTHING. and narcissistic sociopaths do. They honestly have NO conscience. Wishing I had run then!!! Will take years to recover financially and emotionally. Sdelph.

  60. david joyce

    I believe I know a Sociopath, Narcissist. He destroyed my life all together. I never knew anything about Sociopaths or Narcissists besides horror movies. Something should be done to inform the public about the evil they can do, and what to look for.

  61. anon

    Hi Robert!
    I have only just started researching about sociapaths after talking to a friend following a really bad relationship. Its something you don’t want to label on someone you feel so much for but the patterns of behaviour match up to the signs I have read about. Since researching and reading, I believe that I have met a few of these types of people in my life and always ended up getting hurt, its frightening to think I keep letting these people into my life. I came across your post whist researching, I know you from tv but when I saw your name…..something inside told me I have to contact you, I don’t want to write on here but would be extremly grateful if you could reply to me via email! Yours respectivly! X

  62. Helpless

    Thanks to all of the posts. Unfortunately, now I am more worried than ever that my ex will never leave me alone. Here is my story….

    I met my ex after going through a divorce. I was self sufficient, raising my son on my own, had a good job, my own house, but my first ex left me feeling a bit unloveable. However, I decided that I was going to focus on my son, that I would date, but not get involved in anything serious. My ex pursued me relentlessly. He left flowers on my car in the morning, told me how wonderful I was, played “good daddy” with my son, etc. I kept telling him that I was not getting involved in anything serious, but he would not let up. He kept on, the gifts became more extravagant, the complements more flattering, I finally gave in. Eventually, I married this man. I have to say that he did a great job of putting on that facade that he had it together. He did work and made pretty good money, but spent it just as fast as he could and spent my money too. Then when the economy tanked and he lost his job… The real sociopath came out. I would go to work and come home to “how many guys did you fuck today?” Then I never did anything right, then I was fat, then I was a bitch, then I didn’t perform in the bedroom like he wanted, then I was a horrible mother. By this time, we had a child between us in addition to my son. Then he started in with drinking and doing cocaine. I begged and pleaded for him to get help. We went to five or six different marriage counselors. They all said he had an anger problem, drug problem and drinking problem. Next counselor. Oh, I forgot, this is when the real abuse started. He never hit me, but he certainly tired to throw things at me and hit me. Luckily, I got really good a dodging things. He tore me down so much, blaming all of his problems on what I was or wasn’t doing for him that I was almost suicidal myself. I started seeing a counselor and it wasn’t until I heard these words that I finally got the courage to leave… “Do you want your daughter to think that it is okay for a man to treat her like your husband treats you?” That’s when I filed for divorce and left. That’s when things got even worse. He would not leave me alone, he called, he e-mailed, he texted, he begged, he swore it would never happen again. Then one night he broke into my gated apartment complex and tired to break down my door screaming he was going to kill me. Finally, I got a restraining order. That lasted a year and for the most part, with the exception of an occasional e-mail, he left me alone. We got divorced, I got it put in my papers that he was only to contact me by e-mail and it was only to be regarding any visitation with our daughter. Well that didn’t work!!! Since the day the restraining order ran out (almost 2 years ago now) he has made my life a living hell. I have gone back to try to get another restraining order, but they keep telling me that I need to take it up with the civil courts. I have blocked his number from my phone, blocked his e-mails, but somehow he manages to get through enough to harass me. When he can’t get to me, he goes through our daughter. Just last Sunday evening I was at my daughter’s cheerleading competition. I managed to avoid him throughout the evening. Oh, I forgot to say that I recently filed for contempt in court for the harassment and for back child support that he has never paid. Back to the story… he approached me at the end of the evening and wanted to talk. I said I have nothing to say to you and started to walk away. He punched me in the back. I got a police officer and made a report. Again I went to file a restraining order and was told that since I already have a civil case pending, I needed to address it there. He called my daughter that evening and told her he was going to kill himself if I filed for a restraining order. Of course, I was up all night with her because she was so upset. He is currently on probation for DUI. I have called his probation officer and given him all the reports where I have had to call the police on him for harassing me, hitting me, etc. NO ONE WILL DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I have done all I can to follow the advice I see online… I don’t respond to any of his antics, except to file police reports and take him back to court, I don’t contact him for any reason. I leave it to my daughter (now 14) to make plans with him. What else can I do? I just want to be left alone.

    Helpless…..

  63. S Delph

    I’m separated for the second time in five years from a narcissistic sociopath. I am wife number five. It wasn’t until this seperation that I realized what I was truly dealing with. He’s cost me two homes, a car, tons of money and lots of things… But the worst is what he’s done to my son and I emotionally. He had been back for 9 months and we had our first fight if you want to call it that. I confronted him in a lie. It set him off. He looked at me with those cold hollow eyes and said I was nothing more than a good friend and he didn’t love me. I realize I did the best thing I could’ve ever done by asking ‘mick’ to leave. But it’s the aftermath of what these heartless people do. He’s been gone for 8 months and he won’t speak, he changed his phone number, and he will respond very cold and cruelly by email only. I filed for divorce. ‘Mick’ doesn’t even work. He’s fooling social security disability as well. I loved him but its obvious, he is incapable of normal feeling. Incapable of love… They are sad humans however, they are like a human tornado. They rip through your life, destroy everything, and then disappear. And don’t expect sorrow or remorse of them because THEY DO NOT CARE.

    • Christine Moore

      The worst part for me was forgiving myself for believing all the B.S. A narcissistic sociopath has diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the conscience.

      • Christine Moore

        People have no idea what a woman goes thru with an “order for protection.” It’s mostly B.S. because it rarely saves any woman’s life if the man decides to kill her. It’s as if our whole legal system is mysogynistic. I wish you the best in this situation.

      • Gloria

        Dear Christina,

        I love your analogy! What I find most frustrating is that these people can be stopped to a degree but trying to get their closet allies to believe they are dangerous is next to impossible! Their siblings(if they are not that bright) think “He/she is just weird, or a “troublemaker” or worse, they believe the myriad of yarns said “troublemakers” spin. I got involved with a guy like this and heck, one of his friends used to be a counselor and still does not believe he is a Sociopath. The Sociopath once said “You’re too good for me”
        his friend diagnosed that comment incorrectly. What I learned this comment means is “you are too smart for me”, in other words, he/they rely on their family and friends(rarely do they have these) being naive and stupid. I was not naive for too long and was smarter than he was, his biggest fear. He cried tears over things that were unimportant, said how the world would be a better place if he ruled it, he is a racist and a bigot, he does not see his many physical flaws(he is hideous), he has been married to a very pathetic woman who has no common sense and an IQ under 100, he has cheated on her at least a dozen times of which she has no knowledge. When he was pressed about this he admitted to only one affair and lied about it saying he was “blackmailed” and “stalked” by the woman. The wife believed him! He conned an elderly woman out of 500 thousand dollars, has not had a job since he was 42 years old, he is 56 now. He has moved 8 times in 27 years, recently 3 times in 3 years.
        He moved his wife away from her family, tried to kidnap his step grandson, tells people to fake mental illness because “the government is too stupid to catch on”, he collects 100 percent disability from the military, while in the Military he admitted to running drugs and making tons of money doing so, his wife collects disability, he steals from friends, he manipulates his family and laughs his rump off at everyone! He taught his grandson to undress women with their eyes, attack girls if you don’t get what you want(men are superior), his grandson has choked a teacher, was life flighted to a Burn Unit because he did set himself on fire, attacked a girl in school, squared up to his mother and helped this Sociopath grandfather kidnap him! He was finally locked up for a few weeks but come to find out it was because someone had turned him in for fraud and he needed to prove he was for real, he fooled all of them in the Psyche Ward….yet again! This man’s wife is so foolish that she believes the world is wrong and he is an angel. Here is what I think. I blame his wife for his ability to continue his path of destruction, I blame his brothers for not using their brains by learning about his behavior, I blame his parents and I blame his friends(?) if they ignore it. He should be locked away forever or better yet……If they choose to ignore him then I hope they all feel his wrath, the wrath the rest of us have felt.

  64. There are lawyers who are specifically trained to deal with these disordered persons when it comes to a divorce matters or child custody. Listing is at lovefraud.com

    • Gloria

      Unfortunately that advice applies to individuals who seek to divorce said Sociopath. The rest of the world is left unaware of the havoc that will soon descend. I have a moral obligation to make this man known to as many people as I can by relating my experiences. So far when it comes to his family they choose to look the other way but I have learned that all of his childhood friends want little or nothing to do with him. He is older now and has burned his bridges behind him. He takes massive doses of Xanax, Tramadol(opiate), and Lithium now. They say these drug cocktails do not offer healing in any way as there is no cure but they do slow them down. I also learned that many times Psychiatrists will encourage the spouse to stay simply because it is the easiest way to monitor the Sociopath’s meds intake and such. This is the case in this man’s life for reasons that she does not believe he is a Sociopath. The mind has a rather creepy way of tricking itself into thinking that someone who simply cannot feel love…loves only them!

      • S Delph

        ‘Micks’ family protects him. They play into all of his games and lies. He runs to them if there’s the slightest disagreement he will pack his bags, take what he can, and run to mommy. He will use his mom and son in between wives (all FIVE of them!). I believe they do this because they are accepted among close family and feel family believes they are ‘normal.’

        ‘Mick’ doesn’t have any friends either. While he and I were together he would talk about all these friends he has but as I got to know them when he took off – they couldn’t stand him. They, as well as, family ‘fear’ them for some reason so they ‘pretend’ to be his friend.

        It’s also interesting that they are hypochondriacs. Has anyone else seen this trait?

        • Gloria

          Lmao! “Ttam” was constantly saying he had some physical affliction! One time he called be and told me he had a rare form of “Graves Disease” and had to have his urine flown to England! I never laughed so hard..I told he he was full of S**t and that ended that play hour! He has had the following maladies(all fake), Congestive Heart Failure, Cancer, Seizure Disorders, Cancer of the eyeball, deterioration of bones, muscle atrophy(he should, he is lazy), Chronic Bronchitis, inner ear affliction which cause him to lose balance, suicidal thoughts(yeah, a narcissist who would kill himself), hearing loss, reverse sleep patterns, migraines, high blood pressure, low blood pressure, sleep apnea, etc. The reason they are such pussies is to stop you from seeing what mental defectives they are and just maybe if you are dumb enough you will fall for their crap! “Ttam”‘s brothers and fall for his lies every time but I think they feel that if they admit he is that corrupt people will think the rest of them are also. When I look back at the time I spent trying to help him I have to laugh at myself! Mostly I laugh at him and those he is able to fool. His wife is as crazy as he is. The thing that is really bad is they drain the tax payers with their fake disability claims and I think the doctors who go along with it are just as much to blame. So yes, they are hypochondriacs! What a bunch of losers they are!

        • S Delph

          My favorite is when he showed up to court during our first separation wearing a ginormous borrowed hearing aide!!! Bahahaha. I guess he thought the judge would feel sorry for him and grant him the 950.00/month spousal support he was asking for. (After a 2 1/2 year marriage!!) they thrive on pity!!

        • S Delph

          ‘Mick’ also likes to claim fake fatal illnesses on his family. The first time he left his sister had inoperable terminal cancer… 3 years later… She’s miraculously cancer free with NO intervention. This time we are separated his mother has lung cancer with mets throughout her body. 8 months with no treatment… What a thing to lie about.

        • Gloria

          Bahhahhahhahhaa..get me a diaper! I mean really? A hearing aide? Look, I know how serious this is but come on, when you look back at their behavior some of it is just plain hysterical..ginormous hearing aide, hahah, hey, one night when “Ttam, his brother and I went out to dinner, he was supposed to pay(bahahaha!) when the bill came he went to the bathroom and then when he looked around for the waiter, he was squinting as though he was blind! Then he waited just long enough for his brother to pay the bill and this part was so frigging funny(I already knew he was a con by this time), he pretended he could not hear the waiter ask who the bill was to go to! I told him he was a cheap skate, he got pissed! He did this every single time we went to dinner..I told him to release the moth balls from his wallet! The judge must have been on to your Sociopath? Parasites..remember this, they are parasites.

        • S Delph

          Lol what a loser. Makes me wonder what I was thinking?! How bout you? ‘Mick’ didn’t mind paying when we went out. In fact, he liked paying. Because I was the bread winner! Remember… He also faked out ssdi…

          One time I had just walked in the door from work. And there’s a big crash in the bedroom… Oh he was just ‘sick’ his laptop was left in the middle if the bed and it just ‘jumped off’ or was pushed by a ‘ghost’. Lol. Because he wanted a new one!!! And he went out the next day and bought himself one! He LOVED new toys and he thought I was a moron!! It just wasn’t worth the fight. There was no disagreeing with him. He’d just pack and run to his mommy.

        • Gloria

          Before I headed to work today I combed thru my emails and received one from a former friend of “Ttam’s”. In it he described how after the Socio got caught with his pants down and his tongue tied in knots due to lies..he bailed on his old friend and labeled him “The Town Cryer”. This guy was asked to answer questions, he did, but when he told the truth the Socio threw him under the bus and ran home to his “mommy” which in all actuality, is his wife. See how common all the behaviors are? In or around 2004 I found out that the Socio was not feeling well and drove himself to the hospital(a weekly routine), when he arrived he was in a self imposed state of chaos and had to be restrained then heavily sedated. After this explosion he was place on Haldol for a long time(he says 3 years but he lies so who knows), Haldol is very strong and one of his in laws told me he slept 20 hours a day. I think perhaps this is a good way to keep these types reined in? I also have learned that as they age they run out of “plans” and “prey” and tend to “mellow”. Like I stated,there are many times I look back and laugh at how stupid he acted and get a good laugh but I am not married to the fool. Strange though, I still find it horrible that they were born with the wires crossed or worse…missing!

        • Gloria

          Hypochondriacal is the term used. It is to distract you from addressing what they have up their sleeve for the next battle in the War. “Ttam” would fein migraines or stomach cramps when I caught him lying. I find it so curious that for “humans” who are never empathetic, they certainly crave pity, but when one is Grandiose/glib I suppose it makes sense. I know the reason I can find humor in my situation, it is because I have no contact with him at all and it has been over a year. Seriously though, I think had my father not been diagnosed with ASPD I would not have recognized “Ttam’s” Sociopathy within a few months like I did. He is the carbon copy of my dad with the exception that “Ttam” is into young girls, boys too maybe, porn, and has had sex with dozens of women over the course of his 30 year marriage. I find it hard to believe his wife does not now he is a cheat and a cad. He’s on “vacation” right now, gathering information on his next target, he also has a niece he moved down there near him, he has a brother who is a tweak away from a normal life and he let his daughter move near the Sociopaths, not very bright. The Sociopath has another brother who is in prison for enticing a minor(the whole family thinks it was a “boo boo”) but the court transcript shows it was far more than a “boo boo”. The family as a whole is very unhealthy but when you look at them from the distance they “appear” normal? They are not. What I found helpful was enlisting vocal support from a few people that knew them and who had said they would affirm everything I stated, one guy used the term Psychopathy, which was a shock to me but a good one at that. Like I said, I laugh now, but in the very front of all the chaos, I was stunned and hurt. Now I am smart and strong and warn others of these predators. I did share the hearing aide story with my husband and he laughed..thanks for the dose of humor.

  65. Pat

    Have you ever suspect your sociopath partner of having same-sex encounters or affairs?

    • Gloria

      I suspect the guy I knew has had sex with his own Step grandson! So do others.

      • Graeme Robertson

        Wow. Its been 3 years since my psychopath friend left me in despair. I had to get my head around this personality disorder and get on with my life. Easier said than done. I have learnt this. It takes a long time as they have messed with your mind, maybe I will never get over this mans abuse and disrespect for me. The sad thing is that he is doing it to someone else and cleverly hiding it from them. He is working in the IT department of a university and has fooled them also. They will know nothing of his past. I know that as I have seen his glowing resume. I was only told again yesterday that karma will have its way with him.
        As for myself. I have moved on in many ways. I would go back to finishing my book which I know will give insite to my dilemma and maybe help many to understand this disorder. However, if I indulge too often in the material composed I start to feel the situation closing in on me again.
        I came a cross a web site that promotes gay men. There he was in full disguise and giving false details of his age. I knew full well that it was him as it featured a photograph of his body? So now he is looking for other victims as he was posing as a gay couple? It is all so horrible and messy but to me so stupid as these people think they have a right to hoodwink others and that we are all stupid! Well we are not. He is living in a small country town and soon he will have to move on as the truth gets out. Do I feel for him? yes I do, but under no circumstances can I ever have contact with him again. He is destructive and only wants others to get tangled in his web. This is the nature of a full blown psychopath. On his profile he states that his favourite TV series is “LIe To Me”. You see they learn the ropes.
        I have come across a man who has similar symptons so I avoided him like the plague. Then I heard of his past. Not sure if it is psychopathic but it is wrought with some pesonality disorder that i have no time for. Friends listen to your heart. Trust your instincts and on the first hint of foul play just RUN. Get these people out of your life. The world is full of wonderful men and women who you can trust.

        • Frankie

          I have just posted a comment and you may wonder who i am. I have no hesitation in giving my name but my blog name is FRANKIE. Have to sort that one out.

        • Gloria

          You are feeling for something that has no feeling. None. Zero. Nada. Empty. Void. A deep gnawing chasm. dark pit. The only they feel is anything that has to do with what they want. I do not say need as they are void of that too, to need would mean to feel.

  66. Gloria

    S Delph..I keep laughing so hard my husband thinks I am laying eggs! Check this one out..one night, we were finished with dinner(his brother paid) and he kept stating on the way home how he had to get ear buds for his ipod cuz he did not like the ones he had so the first time he pulled this crap(he owns the 60 thousand dollar Buick Enclave and I own the 20 thousand dollar Corolla!) I bought them..well the spoiled monster did not like them(brat! 55 year old brat lol!) so he stops at CVS and says “you wanna come in with me?” No thanks I say, there is nothing in there I need or want, I just have to get home. He did this everywhere he went with everyone he was with! The last time I saw the loser we met us at an Italian pizza/sub place, he storms over to the table and says” I thought you people were going to have my meal ordered.” I said “Are you for real?’ He turned beat red and then takes a 5 dollar bill and 3 crumpled up ones and throws them on the table and says, “Here, this is all I have” So..I said “Okay, you have enough for 3 meatballs, that’s it!” bahahaha! His wife though is every bit as evil as he is because she goes in on all the cons…from the sidelines! The wife has 2 kids of her own, thank God his sperm had no sense of direction! Her children for all intents and purposes have light years to go if they want to prove a success. They watched these two adults for too long and I am afraid in nature vs nurture, nature has won..the “kids” are in their mid to late 30’s. Yeah, he tells people his wife only has a few years to live all the time and that the doctor told him he will die soon(I can always hope!) Can you believe how text book every case is tough? I mean, every book, case, blog, support group, Hub, are about different Sociopaths yet they all fit the same mold..they say Sociopaths are very intelligent, the one I knew was book smart on Civil War, World History but ask him how to make a half hitch knot, what the nutrient value of organic spinach is, or what a deciduous tree is and he would change the subject. Hell, this goofball can’t tie his shoes…he wears Velcro sneakers! And yes, his wife is SSDI and he is Veteran Disability, he is a veteran of smuggling drugs! Last I heard someone turned him in for fraud, I plan to do the same.

    • Gloria

      Robert,
      Sociopaths are not “curable”. In very rare instances if they are managed before the age of 15 they can be trained or better yet, retrained to quell their destructive behavior but they will never, ever, feel empathy, love, kindness or any of the other positive attributes that “normal” humans house. It is called Anti Social Personality Disorder more than Sociopathy now. They are both the same affliction but stigma is attached to the term Sociopath, as it well should be! The American Psychiatric Association notes to date….no cure. On top of the stories I shared with you about the Sociopath I knew, he was also into suing people, he went as far as to sue his own company for tripping over pine cones and pine needles in the parking lot, he fell and says he was injured for life. He lost!

      • S Delph

        Oh my!! Lol. Mick said his mommy was going to sue me if I called her apartment where he is mooching. Lol.

        • Gloria

          I bet these guys out live us!

        • S Delph

          Micks newest ailment is diabetes. So he says. He did have a cardiac stent placed a year ago and he’s got two more blockages (I spoke with the cardiologist myself so I know this one isn’t a lie). They need to be careful what they wish for!!

        • Gloria

          Bahahaha bahaha! Really, well “Ttam” has high blood pressure and cardiac problems too, they are real. because he is lazy and eats junk. Like I said Beta Carotene, and Micronutrients are words he cannot say let alone spell! He can tell you the Capital of Zimbabwe however! He wants Viagra because he believes he should have more stamina, not with his wife but every other poor woman in waiting out there..he never wears a wedding band..said he is allergic to the gold..I said get hypoallergenic then..he said “The doctor said it is bad for his circulation! You cannot make this stuff up, I am back to laughing again because when you write it down..you see the insanity! Stay strong S Delph!

        • S Delph

          Mick always said he wanted a implant. Who knows if he was serious or not lol. That’s the sickest thing! And mick knows everything about everything. He appears very intelligent and he truly can fix anything. They aren’t stupid people. And masters at deception and manipulation!!

        • Gloria

          There are limits to their brand of intelligence, ie, Rainman mentality. If they knew everything they would not need to manipulate! Seems their brains have not figured that into the equation. My old Sociopath is a bad man and will die that way. I would feel pity but why waste emotions on folks who have none, right?

        • S Delph

          I agree! Mick is a horrid person. He’s done horrid things to me. He’s treated me worse than anyone in my life. I didn’t deserve what he did. But does anyone!?

        • S Delph

          I’ve never been more hurt or more disappointed in anyone in my entire life. Mick is my life’s biggest disappointment.

        • Gloria

          S Delph,
          Hope you are well. FYI, I too, feel a sense of loss. How I get through this feeling is by making a mental list of the pros and cons of our friendship. I barely get past the number 2 when I think of his positive qualities and the list of negatives ones is endless. I was never treated so cruelly by a supposed friend in all my life. I must admit, he warned me “You will give more than you will ever get”..”You are too nice and I need that niceness squeezed out” “I have no friends, you are the first person who has ever had a good memory of me”.they call these tells, not red flags, those are different. He called me names, bullied me and when he threw the s**t at the fan then blamed me, for everything. He(they, Sociopaths) cannot have friends. He is fortunate his wife believes everything he says and that he is never at fault. You know, he once said “you have done more for me in 5 months that anyone has in 25 years”, what he meant was, “I burned everyone and you are the first victim to offer themselves to me in 25 years”. Because I am a care giver and a true human, I too struggle with wondering maybe I was wrong, but then I go to the mental list and remember something my mother in law said “In order to have a friend, one has to first be a friend.” Not to happen with “Ttam”. I saw an old friend of his and he said I “dodged a bullet”, it helps to know others feel about him the way I do. Please, don’t be like his wife and stay 31 years thinking you can coerce love out of him, they do not have the feelings you seek.

  67. Gloria

    S Delph

    It’s 1 AM and I am waiting out this storm so I thought i would check in with you. The Sociopath I knew has also been a disappointment to me also. I knew him when i was younger and although I married and had a child with a really great guy, he never escaped my mind. Then one strange night I had a dream about him and my husband said if the contents of the dream disturb you see if you can locate him. Long story short, he DID NOT turn into the man I dreamed he would have. But in retrospect, as i examine him thoroughly, can see “back to the future” and he was cruel and twisted then, he told me his mother said to her friends one day when he was doing something bad “That one there marches to a different drummer.” So from the time he was “created” to this moment in time his destiny was Sociopathy. The fights, the long train of girls, pregnancies no one would ever dare complete(he threatened girls he impregnated), the lies, the stealing, conning, manipulating, disrespect, he bullied anyone and everyone. The use of the Military not because he loves his country and wanted to serve it but because “I need to see things, do things”, these things were to run drugs. He told me how when stationed in Germany one very cold night after getting drunk(alcoholic) he went outside, found a homeless man passed out on the sidewalk and he urinated on him, laughed and went back in and brought his underlings to do the same..this was an Officer in the USAF!!! This is just one of hundreds of acts of cruelty he imposed on other humans. His wife was married before and had 2 children, she followed behind him like a puppy dog and let me tell that messed her now adult children up permanently. Her daughter has no goals, is 37 and her son actually was so taken by the Socio that he took his last name(charm at work), one of his old girlfriends named her son after him(wtf?) so there are still a couple people that he charms but I do know this..they live far away from him and have no idea all the things he has done. I tried in vain to help him as it appeared his wife did not know what to do. He wanted nothing to do with help. he brags how she helped him stop drinking and claims sobriety but after he stopped the booze, he took large doses of Vicodin for years. After he quit that he started smoking marijuana and still does plus he takes Xanax and Tramadol(narcotic) so his already screwed up mind has done the addiction dance for the last 44 years of his life. If his wife had stepped up 30 years ago, even 15, educated herself and put her children first he would have been better managed, not cured, but managed. She asked me recently when I discovered he was not the man I though he would be..I said pretty much right away. Instead of that alerting her, she ran to his side, helped him chew on the “carrion” and sooner or later Bonnie and Clyde Barrows will go in for the take…again. So, I hope i was able to bring to light the story of a boy I knew long ago and show you how they are born this way, they can at times be nurtured and sometimes encouraged but they will all leave this world never, ever, knowing love, empathy, compassion. They will only know hate, anger and for some, violence. Yes, i too was(key word) sad for a few months but now i spend my energy stopping him from hurting other innocents by making people aware of what he is, if they bite, fine, if they do not, they have only themselves to blame. Forewarned is forearmed? For you it is deeper and more difficult because you have a relationship. Keep reminding yourself what he is and that you deserve a better life. You do!

  68. Chris

    Your an idiot, your completely bias and obviously are not very educated in psychopath and sociopathy. If you need to rank somewhere go see a psychiatrist

  69. Gloria

    Aha! Robert! Chris just showed us what projection looks like! “Chris” it turns out, is following my comments and another persons. “Chris” is not “Chris”. I say let him back…you can see for yourself what he is? I want to say that I truly enjoy all of your blogs. Thanks for the word and the work!

    • Ok I let him back on.

      Is he going to follow the comments rules?

      • Gloria

        I doubt he or she will ever come back. To follow a rule for them would be akin our ability to change the direction in which the sun rises and sets! I just thought since this is your blog you would be able to observe said person’s behavior? Thanks!

  70. Fred Flintstone

    Hi Robert, I haven’t posted for a while but I want to say thanks for your blog. It has taken 2 years to get over my relationship and hearing everyone else’s stories really helped. I thought I was going mad – no-one who knew this charismatic man would ever believe me if I told them he was a sociopath – so I didn’t. They would just think it was sour grapes because he left me. It is amazing to hear the similarities – the charisma, the sense of entitlement, the taking everything until there is nothing left to give and then walking away. Mine started to pay me back – after I threatened court action but every small payment to my bank came with an abusive comment. In the end I wrote to him to cancel the debt as I didn’t need this abuse. He didn’t even say thank you or contact me again. Once I got him out of my life completely, the healing began. I am still in love with his ‘persona’ but that is healthier than hating someone. I still love the period we had together – it is the first time I felt truly loved by anyone and actually feel sorry for him that he can never have these feelings. As with everyone else, once he didn’t get free food, accommodation and me continually bailing him out, he turned verbally abusive, blamed me for all his failings and undermined my self esteem. I had 6 months of counselling to get over him and get my confidence back. The whole episode cost me over $60.000 but I learnt a lot and have taken up studying psychology because of him.

    Thanks to everyone who posted.

    • Gloria

      Dear Sue,

      I agree with the cheers for Robert! There are a few other sites but none quite as helpful as Mr. Lindsay’s. Sue, for all the pain you went through I am so sorry. I still wish I could have had the final word with the guy I dealt with but his wife is his shield. So long as he has uneducated family protecting him, he will continue to destroy lives, they, the family, are every bit as guilty in my eyes. Time destroys these people you know. They rot and fester, as their access to the vulnerable shrinks, they start reacting in more obvious ways. Those that are left to deal with these horrible parasites and choose to help them are volunteers not victims. Keep moving forward, in time you will find that this feeling you believe is “love” turns out to be something quite different. I am at a great place because with time and space and quite a bit of inquiries, I have found I am not alone in what I see and, the “love” was merely me looking for approval. They, ASPD’s, don’t give a fig about anything. Pity the wretched souls that are foolish enough to stay 20, 30 and forty years. For these women/men, there must be an incredible payout?

    • Fred Flintstone

      Dear Rob – I’m sorry I put my name on my comment – can you change it to Fred Flintstone – I am still terrified of kicking this hornet’s nest. If he finds out I posted I will be in all sorts of trouble. This tells you everything. I used to put it down to artistic temperament but now realise that it was the ‘real’ man coming out. He really scares me. He has already spread rumours that I am mad and a lier and because he left people assume it was something I did. I just told him I would not lend him anymore money – it took 4 days for him to find another sucker and since he left he has just sent insulting emails to me like the angry man he is. If he thinks I posted the emails may turn into visits…

      Thanks

      • Gloria

        Fred,
        First of all, these people are everywhere! Good Lord! I highly doubt any Sociopaths(well, I think that dude Chris may be one) will enter this site. It would mean they are investigating their own behavior and of course, as you know, they don’t do that! As I have stated before, anyone who believes a word that exits their mouths deserves the battle that comes with the territory. You cannot stop him from lying about you but you can prove he is a liar by being a good person and speaking truth to power. Intelligent people with compare the two styles and come to the conclusion he is an a**, unless of course he has family. Those suckers cling to them for life! Sounds like he is finishing the way the come in, with a bang! They should all be locked up along with anyone who believes in them!

  71. dav

    Gloria
    I was bullied from my Sociopath as well. I was just so close in what I was thinking he was a friend. Now, I think how could I not see what was happing.

    • Gloria

      No one sees this coming! Good people, kind people, loving people, caring people cannot imagine that evil could ever be this close. It is. Bullying is what they do best. When you discover who they are, they run around telling everyone it was your fault, like a child. Believe me, when you take stock of the number of friends they have you will see it is close to none and the ones that do stay are there because they are controlled. They have no long term relationships for the most part. it does seem however that women in general, hang on for long periods of time. As I stated in my case, he is a master at stealing money and his wife benefits from that. I made sure I informed authorities in the states they are from and the Police have them on their radar, but that’s just me and how I dealt with them.

  72. dav

    Do you know what, that is what he did, toled everyone that I was the problem. And from the outside, it most likley looked that way. I have to say he did have some control over me. I guess, I just had so much trust in him. He had a group of people believing one thing and me believing another. He lyed to everyone. I do know, he really believes his own lyes.

  73. Gloria

    Yes dav, you are now a member of a huge group of people in this world that know such horrible humans. Fear not, even if the other people believe his lies and the lies he told about you, he is already done with you and has his next victim in his radar. You are not even an afterthought. Pity the fool who is next in the line up!

  74. Liz

    Where can I get help stopping the NS’s from trying to destroy my life & my 3 children’s lives?? My sister & my exbf do every evil, manipulative, abusive act that exists and I think they are hell-bent on me losing EVERY thing. No contact only goes so far with these sneaky charmers & I don’t have the option to run away — not legally anyway.

    • Gloria

      Liz,

      First let me say that the fact you know what they are is a step in the right direction. Truly however, no contact is still the best route to take. As I have stated before, the latest research shows that when the direct family members of these types of individuals stand up to them and, more importantly, stand beside the person/people the “criminal” has destroyed, they, the Sociopath, are seemingly stunned and stalled. Keep telling everyone you know, do a background check on them. I find that men seldom want to get involved or want to admit they were fooled by such a horrible person(ego), but women and children are always willing to open up. Do not waste your time on his male siblings unless they too have been victimized, the brothers have a twisted sense of devotion. Find old girlfriends, check their criminal history, check their employment history, you will find, as I did, a trail of deceit. Talk to your children and get help. Talk to the school your children attend, go to court, report, report, report, support, support, support. In January, get Dr. Phil’s new book, he deals with these people. You are not alone, believe me!

  75. Peg

    I’m married to a firefighter/paramedic who is a narcissistic sociopath. He and his first wife split up because she cheated on him, he said he’d never do that to me, but he left me for another woman. We’d started counseling because his anger issues had gotten out of control; we had three sessions, he announced it “wasn’t working” and he wanted a divorce. This blindsided me. I soon found out he’d been cheating on me and planned to leave for this other woman, who he now lives with. Of course at the time he acted like it “just didn’t work out” and we had to go our separate ways and should have an amicable break up. he tried to get me to move back to distant city where I had been living, when I had just accepted a new job! he suggested I move in with a friend who I casually mentioned had just lost a roommate. When I finally told him I didn’t think I should have to move out, wince he was the one who wanted to stop counseling and end things, he started acting really horrible and starting fights every day, screaming at me to “get out of his life.” I soon found out he was cheating and had been for weeks. He basically treated me like garbage stuck to his shoe, not his wife. The woman he left me for is also on her second marriage, has two kids, is unemployed and has never had a job. She has a history of using men and my husband is now paying for her to go back to school, has bought her a car, etc. He took our car and I have been without transportation for over a year. Fortunately I have one friend who has helped me while I save to buy a used car, which I am nearly able to do now.

    He lied for months and was cruel and abusive, humiliating me and acting very aggressive and hostile. He has spread all kinds of lies and rumors in our community about me. Before he started cheating on me he started “studying” with some fraud guru, and the woman he is with now also was “studying” with this “teacher.” All three of them are delusional sociopaths who think they have special powers of healing etc.
    My husband and I went through mediation, but then he decided to serve me with divorce papers, forcing me to hire a lawyer. He is now refusing to abide by our previous agreements. I am still living in our house. We stayed married so I could stay on the health insurance a bit longer; but I regret it as he is manipulating me in all kinds of hostile ways. He acts like we were never married, has said he is trying to destroy me, and has repeatedly tried to isolate me and slander me to our community. Fortunately he has no real friends and the people he has around him have no real credibility. Most of our mutual friends have sided with me but he does have a few who decided he and his “girlfriend” are “their kind of people.” The irony is, my husband could have had an open marriage (based on trust and mutual agreement) if he wanted one; but he never wanted this. He decided to tell people we “broke up” because he wanted an open arrangement and I went “crazy with jealousy” and my “anger” drove him away; instead of the real story, which is that he lied and cheated and broke my heart.
    I moved my whole life to a different city to be with him and have very few friends here. I started two small businesses and have slowly become financially more independent (he took all our money when he left and has given me nothing since other than paying the mortgage which is in his name). He accused me of “not working for what I wanted” when I spent two years commuting to a city 3 hours away to work, after I moved to be with him! And now he is totally supporting this girlfriend who has never had a job in her life.
    I look forward to being free of him once the divorce goes through, and moving forward to having a happier life. I wish I had been able to recognize this man fo rwho he was sooner, I new him for years before we started dating; everyone blamed his ex-wife for “hurting” him; now he is demonizing me to try and not be the “bad guy” even though he has treated me horribly. His family has totally embraced the skank who stole him from me and they have not spoken to me since he moved out. That’s another thing; he told me he was moving out to live with his parents and I found out a month after he had moved in with the girlfriend. He tells everyone he lives at his sister’s address; even got checks printed with that address!
    He is a liar and I know that some day he will have nothing and no one. But for now he is still trying to ruin my life even though he already “won.” I always thought I was a good judge of character, intelligent and savvy, but obviously he had me fooled, or maybe my loyalty blinded me. I fear I may never want to get involved in another intimate relationship because I have been so hurt by this one.

    • Gloria

      Peg,

      Your situation is not unique! He will be done with the new woman soon also. The one I know still has the one and only wife he ever had, that is the only thing that separates him from the average Sociopath. But, he needs the woman he married as she is very naive and ignorant, easily manipulated and they also share a very jaded past with most likely shared illegal activities. Be glad the fool is gone and do not waste a minute of your time wishing others could see what he is, instead, hope they get a taste of what he gave you. They take of oxygen, space and time. This world is full of them and they are rearing their ugly heads more and more. Be wise, run the heck away and never talk to him again. This may be hard to swallow but you my dear were just a pimple in the path of his progress. He bled you, took what he wanted and while he was sucking the life out of you, he was already scheming, plotting and getting ready to cut and run….anyone who takes him on after they are warned get what they deserve. You will find intimacy again because what you had with this knucklehead was not even close to love or romance..fake, fake, fake, that is what he is! I hate them all!

      • dav

        Yes this it true. Sociopaths can’t feel. They don’t know what love is. I think the only reason they have childeren and get married is because it looks good to others. Love and romance is a human emotion. My Sociopath bled me dry as well. Sorry to here what you are going through.

    • Hi Peg. I understand completely. I’m sorry you have experienced so much turmoil. I think it is the only thing evil NS’s know how to do – create chaos, destroy, manipulate, LIE, and HURT good people. We are everything they are not. They’re jealous and hate us for every good thing we possess. Behaving like 5 year old tyrants to get their way. How pathetic! Never give up on your dreams. The best revenge is a life well lived….

  76. Today, I went to the beachfront with my kids. I found a sea
    shell and gave it to my 4 year old daughter and said “You can hear the ocean if you put this to your ear.” She placed the shell to her ear and screamed.
    There was a hermit crab inside and it pinched her ear.

    She never wants to go back! LoL I know this is entirely off topic but I
    had to tell someone!

  77. mw

    what about doctors… surgeons specifically. I’ve encountered the worst type of sociopath

  78. Angel

    Mr. Lindsay, I am working on my third non-fiction book. May I quote you from this website. All information quoted will be credited to you and this source.
    Angela L. Emory

  79. After 17 years of “wedded bliss”, I divorced a male with NPD with paranoia thrown in too. While he was still playing the game, the first two years were good. Then all hell broke loose, and it kept getting worse.

    Mr. Wonderful walked out on two sets of kids, leaving them and their mothers to fend for themselves while he made huge money in the oilfield. Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide was the local “good boy”, and addicted to internet pron, phone sex, online dating, on and on. He stole joint assets, even rustling our own cattle and selling them for money to feed his slacious habits.

    They are not the flawed ones. It is you. After being shot, bullied, badgered, robbed and tortured for 17 years, I filed for divorce. That is when it really got bad!

    Don’t walk away from these people, run like hell!
    BC Fort Laramie

  80. Brenda

    The problem with this personality type is that there is never any end to it. I have to say that I still live in fear. For some reason, I just can’t GET OVER IT! The abuse started on our wedding night and just continued. The night that he strangled me, he finally let me up, I sat on the couch, and he sat right beside me. He was talking normally explaining calmly that if I weren’t such a bitch then he wouldn’t have had to do that, and that I drove him to it so it was really my fault. He was talking smoothly, calmly, without emotion. I was choking, sputtering, my throat was pulsating up and down, I was trying to catch my breath; my heart was pounding; I was terrified. (I found out later that he did indeed break my neck, rupture discs and compress my spinal cord). I had two babies in the house 2 and 1 yo. I felt I needed to keep the attention on me, so he wouldn’t go down the hall to the kid’s room. I happened to look at the phone that was by my right arm and his voice changed instantly – harsh, brutal. “Try it, I dare you.” Let’s see if you are fast enough to even touch it.” I got up and he asked where I was going, in a very sweet, calm voice. “Bed, I replied”. I went to bed and he did too. He laid right beside me – you could call it spooning if it were affectionate – his arm was snug around me. He said, “so you won’t go anywhere”. I didn’t sleep at all that night. How can I get away? Where can I go? No money and he was “such a nice guy” and “you’re so lucky”. Even the cops wouldn’t help me. He called me in to the bathroom and shut the door. He said that he was going to kill the kids if I tried to leave. He said that he was going to cut them up in the bathtub one at a time, and make me watch and then do the same to me. He was going to put our bodies in the septic tank where no one would ever find us. He said all this like he was asking me for a section of the newspaper. Calm, serene, almost sweet, but with an edge to it. I finally got out of this relationship, not of my own courage but because he decided to divorce me and emptied the house. I am ashamed that I stayed as long as I did. Why didn’t I have the courage to just grab the kids and start walking? I was so afraid that there was no place to hide and no money to get anywhere. Two kids in diapers! Why was I so weak? Why? Why? What had happened to me?! Even today, many years after divorce, stalking, threats; he hired a hit man; tv show; blaming me, etc., I’m still afraid – I admit it. He said better dead than divorced. I am overprotective of my kids who are teenagers now. I’ve got an alarm system, a german shepherd as a constant companion, gps, cell phone, concealed weapon permit and location trackers, and so on. But which is worse, his np or me allowing someone to have that kind of control/impact over me? Honestly, I still want to run away. Always looking over my shoulder. It’s ridiculous. Thanks for listening.

  81. Debra

    OH MY, it’s been 7 years for me, seven years of a living hell and I was so in love and so understanding that it blinded me from what my partner actually was.
    I had made notes on my calendar throughout the years every time something happened, and only until now have I understood what I was going through. It’s a very sad situation when you realize you have wasted years of your life and have shed so many tears & depression over a person who basically just uses you & manipulates your heart, your mind and your life – for nothing but the fact that they have no conscience and they truly do have a psychological problem they cannot fix. Sadly they do not realize how much they hurt others, and that part alone is the scariest thought because they will continue their lives doing this to other pour souls who cross their path.

    I’ve been through it all:

    – lies about his home life, stated he was ‘separated’ only a year later did I find out he was married still living with his wife
    – lied about his job which was non-existant
    – flirted with friends/strangers alike to the point of starting orgies
    – problems with strangers, as he is very blunt and does not care what he says to people
    – problems with police officers, throwing water bottles, hot dogs, whatever he has in his hands after the bar and starts trouble
    – always centre of attention, the joker, the one who goes on stage and entertains everyone
    – very high sex drive / attractive man
    – promiscuous nature, finding out months sometimes a year later of girls he met online/bar which he had one night stands with or a relationship with
    – loving, kind towards me but within a week or two always dealt with verbal abuse over one issue or other which he caused
    – blamed me for problems which arised due to his own actions
    – never met his close friends or buddies or family members to see his other life (he always kept his personal life separate, there was always one reason or another of why it wasn’t possible over the years)
    – puts people against you, alienates you from your family and friends until all you have is him
    – drinking problem, alcohol which made him grab women in bars (breasts, bottom etc) in front of me caught when I wasn’t looking or when he thought i wasn’t around, and there were many times it was done in front of my face & I was told it was just ‘fun’ and drunkeness that made him do it
    – as much as i have a good heart, am shy, very attractive as a woman, it did not matter to him to lie in my face and have no empathy that he was hurting me with other women
    – there were times i had proof of his lies and I wouldn’t let him know what I knew & I watched him casually tell me otherwise like it was second nature, it hurt to see this knowing the truth
    – always stated he was in love with me and wanted to marry me, but constantly cheated and lied nonetheless out of just pure thrill, I believe they unknowingly get some type of high from this to others, the lying & cheating is exciting
    – very intelligent, yet uses this to their advantage to manipulate others

    My last day was two weeks ago, I waited on him all day for a ‘weekend’ he supposedly wanted to spend with me..
    Friday night excuse was he forgot about a friends husband’s birthday party (i wasn’t able to go as i live an hour away) I later found out he was at a bbq party with friends and women he had associations with.
    Saturday comes along, I received many excuses in the morning as to why I was unable to join him at an ‘antique show’ due to him going early at 8am with family, he ended up not going at all as I later found out he as at this party from the night before and was still enjoying the festivities the next day and was lying to me all along.
    I spend the day cleaning my home, changing my sheets, buying groceries for our weekend, buying his favorite wine.. he finally showed up at 7:30pm, said he was tired and wanted to stay in, he wanted to sit in the car when I sat in to let me know of his day while we were parked, I stated I did not want to sit in a hot car to listen to him tell me about his day, I suggested we could go to a book store if he was tired, sit and have a coffee and he can tell me of his day and then we can go home and hang in if he was tired.
    I was stuck most of my day indoors, waiting on him and doing things for us in preparation, it wasn’t too much to ask to step out.
    Mind you at this time I had already known where he spend Friday night and most of Saturday and I was sad, and because I loved him so much I didn’t bring it up not to upset him.
    Well, as we are driving within 10min he gets angry because he wants to tell me about his day (his lies, not the truth).. I had expressed to him only that I would have liked to join him at the antique show Saturday morning ( I had asked the night prior but he said he was tired and wanted to go to bed) in the morning he just ignored what I said & left without me.. keep in mind you I said this calmly, lovingly and politely, as I do not like seeing his anger. Well within 10min into our ride, after me stating only that I would have liked to join him and wished he would have planned it with me – HE BLOWS UP, starts to get upset hitting & banging at the steering wheel yelling and screaming at me of how much stress he has coming from all angles (as he lives with his parents and has a daughter from previous marriage that only lasted 2yrs) as he is doing this acting like a psychotic maniac, he utters ‘im turning around and going home, i had enough of this sh#t’ WOW

    For the first time, I snapped, I don’t know what happened, with his yelling and telling me he was going home after the day I had I immediately opened the car door as he was driving along the lakeshore, I wanted to get out.

    I have never done that before or acted that way the mere shock of what he had done and how he was treating me in my face, knowing full well he is lying to me, was something I will never forget.

    He was in the center lane and he pulled over within a minute and watched me get out. Now, I know he is lying as I received photo proof of where he was and with whom, he knows he is lying but doesn’t realize I know, and yet he still treated me that way? UNBELIEVABLE

    It took me a little over a half hour to get home walking. Not once did he try to stop me from getting out of the car, he didnt come looking for me, but he did text me in capital letters how I could have caused an accident (we were barely going 20km at the time), and how I could have ruined his career (which he does not have, he is still going to college, his 3rd attempt, failing some courses already) but this is how narcissistic sociopaths are.. this is what they do, this is how they treat you and it was not the first time.

    Sadly this happened once before after waiting on him most of the day, preparing for his arrival, he never showed up & cancelled on me using the excuse that I didn’t want to drive half way and meet him..

    I never responded to any of his texts after he made me walk home in the cold that night, I felt worthless, I realized I had been fooled for 6 years.I was numb on my walk home in disbelief that this has been my life

    He has sent me angry emails and texts since this happened, it’s been 2 weeks – I have not responded to any (as he enjoys the blame game and arguing to the point where he wont make you sleep for a week just from you trying to wrap your brain around all the harsh words and put downs he throws at you).

    I always forgave him, for many many things he has done to me, in front of me and behind my back..

    I guess it took for me to watch him lie to me for days knowing the truth, and it crushed me and devastated me to watch him do this to my face and not have a care in the world of how he was deceiving me and lying to me. It took this last time for me to actually realize the relationship was all a lie – I was faithful and loving and in it wholeheartedly, he wasn’t.

    As hard as it is, and has been, I have not contacted him, I have changed my number and I am having a difficult time because throughout the years he has alienated me from my family and my friends. I am alone more than ever, but I had to do this, my life, my self esteem, my self worth is all gone.

    Sadly, the peace and solace I feel not reading or hearing his harsh words towards me, degrading me & not listening to the constant lies & stories, not being manipulated any longer, and not spending nights and weekends worrying or stressing over issues he brings into my life – has been the first feeling of peace I have felt in a long time.

    It’s a daily struggle trying to forget, trying not to call or text, because I was in love, this was what I believed to be my soulmate, my life. But it was nothing but a lie, I was just one of many, for no other reason but the fact that he cannot control his sociopathic nature.

    I don’t know what the future will hold for me, I don’t know if I will fully recover, I don’t know if I will ever heal from this, but I am going to try – it’s all I have left to save myself from this.

    For those of you who have experienced a relationship with a narcissistic sociopath

    Good Luck to you all & God Bless you all

  82. Will i ever be happy again?

    I left my narc in December of 2011 after living with him for a year.
    he was my sunshine when we met.. I was his princess.. he would do anything for me. we got engaged at 12 weeks…2 weeks later we moved into the house he bought us. OUR dream house. the day of closing his sweet demeanor snapped in half and the ugly began to show.
    one day I asked him to take a telephone call that I thought would save us money on internet and telephone bills.. the story they told him was not what they told me.. bait and switch.
    he was so pissed I wasted his time he tried to upend the antique dining room table on my thighs.. he left for work and I applied for my own apartment. I finally told him I was moving out when he was laid up with surgery and couldn’t come after me.
    nothing is ever his fault…he told me once that he was going to shoot himself .. I said go for it but I wouldn’t play into his manipulation. I was out and he put a round into the wall.
    finally I am getting all my stuff out of his house and he is moving out of town and I can’t wait for the day when the air in my town is clear of his shadow.
    I am learning how to be around him and it is working to some degree.. but there are moments when no matter what I do he is off the wall angry.
    once I have everything out of his house.. I will change my phone number and be on alert and never speak to him again…
    he told me that he doesn’t like sex because it HURTs to have an orgasm. so
    sex stopped after I moved in. wasn’t that great anyway.. he is a very self serving man in and out of bed.
    he has a dog that he loves without limit.. if only he was as nice to people as he is to dogs.
    he has no friends.. he is a lazy man . he was very critical of my housekeeping and once I moved out and he went on disability he didn’t clean anything but the bathroom. he sits and watches tv at least 10 hours a day and then acts like he is the busiest most industrious man on the planet.
    he used to tell me that his daughter didn’t like me.. then he said a neighbor didn’t like me and on it goes….
    I am done buying into his heartless soul…he knows the moment is coming when he won’t ever see me again. and I know that will drive him nuts.. but he is driving me nuts and I have to escape with what sanity I still have.
    I loved him so much and now I can’t stand to be around him.. I get physically sick to my stomach when I have to be near him.
    you can’t even buy peace with this type of person…war is always right under the service looking to show it’s ugly face at the slightest provocation.
    how long will I shake and tremble and resent him for stealing 3 years of my life from me..will I ever feel RIGHT again?
    What was it about ME that made me fall for a narc? will I ever fall for another narc. I am afraid to even date again. I am young enough that I don’t want to be alone for the rest of my life but I don’t ever want to go thru this hell again.
    any suggestions or ideas to help me heal from this.
    I read these blogs and I am sad that so many have gone thru this in their lives. I pray for you all and please pray for me.
    I joined alanon cuz he is also an alcoholic. the group support there has been very helpful cuz drinking and narcissism seem to go hand in hand.
    ok done rambling ty for listening.

  83. Lol, seriously… stop fucking diagnosing people like you went to medical school and actually dedicated your life to serving humanity and actually know what you’re talking about. You took what, maybe 2,3.. no you might have taken 5, even 10 psych classes in college. You read hm.. lets see … 50, 100, 250, 1000 pages of online material (which at times is blatantly contradictory and subjective, lacking testable results and instead of theories you are holding 100 different untested, unproven hypothesis)… and that is at best. Some of you probably just started researching this subject matter as little as a year ago, most of you for even less time than that.

    And as such most of you, I am willing to bet 95-99% of you are not doctors and never will be so please, for the sake of humanity, stop fucking diagnosing people based off a simple checklist. It is like reading the horoscope, you find what you want to find and see similarities where you want to see similarities. Why do you do this? You want to pass the buck, so to speak. You want to say “Hey, its that fuckers (guy or girl or whoever) fault my life is so shitty, they are a sociopath, Yes you heard it, I read some articles online that prove it, they are to blame I take no responsibility… lets all cry about how other people are responsible for our personal mistakes and shortcomings..”

    Honestly… I used to do the same thing, but we have to grow up sometime. Peace

  84. Betty

    Hi Dr. LIndsay,
    I just started reading a book called Choice Theory and read about the sociopath. I couldn’t believe it, because I am with a man who claimed his last girlfriend was a sociopath, and after reading what I read and now your post and along with some others I have found out here I am feeling much better.
    I have come to the conclusion that I am with a sociopath. I feel better, because now that I recognize that I don’t feel so bad about myself and the fact that no matter what I can not please this person or get this relationship to advance.
    He told me after three dates, and was very charming to get me hooked, that he had started ever relationship badly and needed to start this slow and not have a physical relationship at first, even though he said he was very attracted to me found me sexy and before we ever went out sent text messages and other messages regarding that and even sexting messages.
    I started to worry when I found him on other dating sites and questioned it and he said I told you I’m not ready for a relationship, I have intimacy and commitment issues. I bought into this for so long. But my insecurities and lack of self esteem started to kick in with not feeling like I was enough and starting to think he was lying to me.
    So I started doing some investigative work and found more and more lies. Then I confronted him, he turned it all around to me and how I invading his privacy by snooping, etc.
    I can’t believe as I read this how much it is exactly what I’ve been going through and finding out about. It is crazy to think it is humanly possible to be this way and to be so good at manipulation and playing others you can twist it around to make them think its you. And so right about the people in the wings, just waiting to replace you with yet another victim. It’s to bad these people can’t be exposed to the helpless victims they are stalking next. Due to it would be considered slander or whatever… even if its the truth.
    It makes me want to start a seminar worldwide to explain this to woman and help them avoid or get out of the situation.
    I am totally amazed and even somewhat intrigued about this personality disorder. It is disturbing, The next victim contacted me and told me so many tthings and patterns he was doing, tried to warn me and help me supposedly and now he has used me as being crazy, a sociopath and trying to eliminate competition to her. he used us against each other to further his greatness, and she is believing him and about to start a relationship with him, saying I almost made her lose a friend. Anyway thanks for the insight. It makes me want to shout at the roof-tops about this to ever woman and every teenage girl on the planet.

    Thanks Again,
    Betty

  85. WVLady63

    Sociopaths have NO soul. I have lived next door to two for many, many years and I refuse to move. Neither one of them work, they live off of food stamps and stealing. Any time any neighbor calls the police on them, they always come out smelling like a Rose because lying to them is as natural as breathing. The only thing Sociopaths know is to hate, lie, cheat, steal and manipulate. There is no pill to regulate their behavior and institutionalizing them is a waste of time and effort, they never change. They have a birth defect. They are not born with a little bit of flesh in the middle of their brains that gives them feelings, love, compassion, apathy or sympathy. You can’t operate and put this bit of flesh back into their brains. They are miserable, evil hollowed out creatures who are very, very dangerous. One of the ones who lives beside of me tried to run me down in the street with his truck two times in a week. No I didn’t call the police because I knew that he would lie and the police would believe him. Law Enforcement Officers are NOT equipped to handle Sociopaths, no one is. I have left these freaks alone for years and by doing this, it insults them, they live off of perverse excitement, if nothing is happening, they make sure something does. Sociopaths are the Devil incarnate to say the least.

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